[Stoves] [biochar-policy] More on briquettes and pellets

[Otto Formo]

Dear all and Crispin,
I think I leave the comments done by AJH to be my answers about Copyrights and Patents.
Crispin, you know very well what I mean and we have discuessed this before.
About your statement seeing the TLUD ND PekoPe in Kampala, before Paal was there.
Iam straight forward to you: 
Thats a pure lie!
You asked for it and you got it.

If you belive in false alligations and hidden agendas, let it be for me, and the past two years in this forum has given me second thoughts about the "Stove World" as well.
I dont denie that here are most people with good intentions, but some act like they own and rule the World.
There is one thing that someone copy someones invention or product, but presenting it as his own produce........
How much lower can a man sink?
I would never trust such a person in any "battlefield" or under any cicumstances and certainly not during dusk or in "darkness".

Crispin, you are always talking about mass-production and low costs, but you seem to forget about the rising unemployment rate in both Europe and America.
If we go to Africa, a lot of people are involved in the informal sector of production, we are not talking about single numbers in %, but more than 60-80% of unemployment among young men and women. 
Have you ever had that on your mind promoteing your one and only marked driven economy and mass-production from India or China?

If you quote us right, we are not in favour of producing your own stove, but let the peolple with skills and knowledge do it and sell to the local community or nearest town.
This is not only mathematics, its also a question of common sense and practical evaluations.
The infrastructure of the charcoal trade is there already..........whats the heck..........

I have to answer the forms from the WB about small scale household energy projects and trials on production of biochar in TLUD`s.

Have a nice evening.

Otto



 

> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott [crispinpigott at gmail.com]
> Sent: 2010-12-06 16:32:45 MET
> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' [stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] More on briquettes and pellets
> 
> Dear Otto
> 
> It is pretty clear from your many statements to this group that you feel a
> large number of stoves are based on or directly copied from Paal's sheet
> metal burners from Uganda. You are surely aware that nearly no one has seen
> them.
> 
> It would be good if you learned enough about how these stove work to know
> the combustion and operation principles that differentiate them. Paul
> Anderson has done a creditable job trying to categorise the burning
> principles of a number of stoves.  Reading some patents on stoves would be
> one way to know what might be (or is) patentable about a new stove. It
> sounds to me as if you feel people are patenting and re-patenting Paal's
> burners. This is not the case.
> 
> Not everyone is capable of making their own stove, just as no one really
> makes their own pots or matches or cell phones. But they have them.
> 
> If we are trying, as a group, only to promote products that individuals can
> make (with or without tools) the selection will be pretty limited as would
> life itself. We could replace cell phones with two cans and a string I
> guess.
> 
> If the public is going to rely on volunteers only to do their designing,
> training, testing, manufacturing and evaluation, we are consigning the whole
> needy public into the hands of enthusiasts who, as experience has shown,
> tend to promote what they thought of in ways they want it implemented. The
> biochar craze is a perfect example.
> 
> I greatly respect the actions of the millions of volunteers who make this
> work run better. I also do not begrudge those who work full time on these
> marginalized problems and still manage to feed their children by earning a
> living. There is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Jock asked:
> "So let me pose two questions:  Is it better to teach a person how to make a
> stove or to sell them a stove?  Is it worth promoting independence and self
> sufficiency?"
> 
> If the person can't make a decent low emissions stove, like most urban
> people I know, then it is far better to sell them one when there is a
> willing seller, willing buyer. Should we sell them steel to make the stove
> or should they hammer their own sheets from iron ore? What does
> self-sufficiency mean to the stove manufacturer in Kaolack whose production
> is limited by the number of scrapped refrigerators he can find - his only
> source of sheet metal? 
> 
> The secret to economic growth is specialisation and trade. No one is
> self-sufficient save perhaps the San in the Kalahari. They can get by but
> prefer steel arrow tips and fish hooks so they are voluntarily part of the
> market economy.
> 
> In a refugee camp where there is nothing, training stove people to make a
> stove quickly results in specialists developing talents at doing it better,
> faster and cheaper than the masses. The same goes for knitting, weaving,
> pottery and all sorts of things. 
> 
> If they invent something new they are entitled to patent it. It might look
> similar but work differently and that is what an invention is. Patenting
> something is easy - defending it in court is not. With stoves it is usually
> not worth it because someone with money can tie you up in litigation as a
> negotiating tactic. As we have seen for years with stoves, private companies
> are not usually interested in developing new products to the point of going
> to market unless they can get back the development money with some kind of
> protection. 
> 
> Some unkind things have been said recently here about private companies
> bringing stove products to market in a sustainable manner. Why should
> spectacles, pots, watches, shoes, earrings, matches, knives, nails, sheet
> metal and thousands of other products be brought to market in a sustainable
> manner but not stoves? This makes no sense and smacks of extremism.
> 
> If Paal had patented his stove in the 80's, if it was patentable, it would
> have expired by now. It is in the public domain and one can use it or
> incorporate it into an more complex device. If it had been protected he
> might have found private capital to bring it to a far wider market. We will
> never know. I think he did the best he could and is still doing so, like
> many others. 
> 
> A calmer tone would be appreciated all round.
> 
> Regards
> Crispin
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> Stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>