[Stoves] Olivier Char-making Stove

Mon Aug 8 21:04:35 CDT 2011

Paul, 2 lists and several ccs: 

Note I have changed the thread name. 

I have viewed your several new jpegs - and again am impressed. It looks different (but much )the same.from your "esrla" site. The quality of the flames looks excellent. Have you been able yet to have any lab combustion testing? 

A few more comments below 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Olivier" <paul.olivier at esrla.com> 
To: rongretlarson at comcast.net 
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Biochar-production" <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>, "Robert Taylor" <rt at ms1.hinet.net>, "Todd Hyman" <toddhyman at live.com>, "loren cardeli" <loren at agrowingculture.com> 
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 5:51:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future 

Ron, 

It was great talking to you by phone this morning. 

We (four Americans living in Vietnam) are starting a company here in Vietnam call EPWT - 
that is, Empowering the Poor through Waste Transformation. 
The Content section of my old website ( http://www.esrla.com/ ) 
will soon be transferred to the new website ( http://www.epwt.net/ ). 

[RWL: The old one is very informative (and varied). 

Recently we made a lot of improvements in gasifier design, 
most notably, the addition of a burner housing to supply hot secondary air to the burner. 

RWL: It is a little more clear than in our phone conversation . Is the outer ring of holes the entry point for the hot secondary air, and the inner set of holes the exit of the pyrolysis gases? 

For other readers, Paul noted to me in phone conversation that the flame appears in between each set of three holes. It is a surprise to both of us why it should appear that way. Any explanations? (In a burning match the boundaries are all determined by the flow of oxygen molecules inward towards the outward moving escaping pyrolysis gases. In most pyrolysis stove operation, we see the reverse - the oxygen molecules are moving outward from the center of the flame (into the larger volume of pyrolysis gases). Here the flame shape/location doesn't seem to follow those simple rules. In all cases, the emitted light must be (?) where the oxygen molecules meet the gas molecules. Anyone seen this before? Note both gas flows are being pushed by his blower/fan/ 

This allows us to lower the flame to a simmer without danger of the flame going out. 

[RWL: Any estimate possible on this "turn-down ratio" (maximum power level over minimum) ? I think some might be able to get 3:1 - but that may be on high side. 

The jpegs were good - but at some point I hope to see cutaways. 

Here is the 150 gasifier in operation with the new burner housing: 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/IMG_0444.JPG 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/IMG_0445.JPG 
Here is the 250 gasifier in operation with the new burner housing: 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/250%20Gasifier%20Jpegs/IMG_0523.JPG 
Here is a picture of the same 250 gasifier with the new burner housing: 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/250%20Gasifier%20Jpegs/IMG_0513.JPG 
Take a good look at this picture 0513. 
Note the small fan that powers this gasifier. 
It is no bigger than 40x40x28 mm, and is actually too strong for this 10 kW gasifier. 
We operate it at less than 10% of its wattage. 
I will soon be testing this fan to see if it will power the 500 gasifier. 
The 800 gasifier (with an output of up to 100 kW) will require no more than a 60x60x38 mm fan. 
The equipment cost of the larger gasifiers is less than $3.00 per kW. 
[RWL: At first I thought this was a typo. PV is today about 1000 times more costly . (not a fair comparison of course). 

We will be starting the mass production of gasifiers quite soon. 
[RWL: There are not many Biochar equipment manufacturers able to say this. It is great to see this sort of Biochar news this year. 

Many thanks. 
Paul 

[RWL: More thanks to you - and in advance for the questions above. Ron 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:29 AM, < rongretlarson at comcast.net > wrote: 

Stove List: and (added) biochar-production list and adding Robert and (inventor?) Paul 

1. Thanks to Robert Taylor for alerting us to a competitor to the Jatropha - the Chinese Tallow. This plant was new to me - and a plant that looks very interesting (somewhat dangeerous as an invasive species). Apparently in part successful because the Chinese cultivated it and improved it over thousands of years. I think we can well see much the same for many other species -and maybe especially Jatropha. 

2. On the ESRLA site recommended by Robert, I found an excellent long paper also by Dr. Paul Olivier on a really nice looking TLUD stove being manufactured and sold (apparently) in Viet Nam. The paper is at: http://esrla.com/pdf/landfill_06.pdf . 

There is a strong case made there for using a fan - and Paul may well be correct. We should all look more carefully at the advantages of a blower - in saving on fuel costs, but also on convenience and efficiency of being able to control the blower speed. There is a fine looking blue flame in one picture. But mostly I like the professional look and excellent prices on a whole series of models - showing nice economies of scale in pricing. 

I was in Viet Nam earlier this year and am not surprised at the high quality and low costs of commercial products such as are demonstrated in Paul's paper. Their economy is really growing rapidly - and we in the USA are mostly not aware of this big progress.. The Vietnamese are not a typical Communist country - and especially the area in the South around Ho Chi Minh City (HCMC - formerly Saigon). Let's all pull for the Vietnamese to beat out China in the Biochar race! 

His design is very tall and thin - which surprised me. I would like to know if he has also striven to (or could) get a low squat stove. Most unusual of all is that he places a special burner on top of the unit after top-lighting. I have not seen that before.either 

I hope that Dr. Olivier can add some details on his development of this stove, how sales of these TLUDs are going, any problems with any of the fuels he has been using, and also if he has any results from the use of Biochar in the field (improved yield, etc). He makes a very strong case for the economics of using rice husks and rice straw. I also wonder if the Tallow tree fruit (or branches) has been tested in this stove. 

Congratulations to Dr Olivier for two excellent papers. They bear reading twice. 

Ron 

ps After writing the above, I had a substantial phone conversation with Paul (he in Vietnam with a Louisiana phone!). I am even more impressed - and will try to learn more from some other leads he gave. I look forward to further remarks soon from Paul on his pyrolysis stoves - that have some very clever stove innovations and some likely near-term commercial advances.. 

From: "Robert Taylor" < rt at ms1.hinet.net > 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org > 
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 2:13:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future 

Here are some ideas about the Chinese tallow tree (Triadica sebifera, syn 
Sapium sebiferum) from Dr Paul Olivier, who used to post to this list: 

http://esrla.com/pdf/tallow.pdf 

Robert 

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-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD 
27C Pham Hong Thai Street 
Dalat 
Vietnam 

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) 
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) 
Skype address: Xpolivier 
http://www.esrla.com/ 
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