[Stoves] Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

Sat Dec 31 16:48:31 CST 2011

Jim,

You said it quite well.
Thanks so much.

Paul

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 2:59 AM, jim karnofski <karnask at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Dear All,
>
>  ------------------------------
> From: karnask at hotmail.com
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [Stoves] [biochar]
> allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:54:53 +0000
>
> I see Kevin as a thoughtful and skeptical, but not well-read and Kevin
> seems to see agriculture as a science with certainty as if it always has
> black and white answers. The more you know about soils, the more respect
> for uncertainty you have as the chemical nature of soil is infinite.
>
> As far as farm economics, time and testing will tell, but I am certain the
> answer will be more pragmatic than some farmers can stand. For instance, a
> recommendation might be, add biochar as you can afford, building up to 1%
> in your lifetime and leave the next increment to the next farmer over the
> next generation. The efficiency and effectiveness of the soil is improved
> with the added carbon. And Carbon, by definition, is organic. Carbon
> compounds need not be edible to be considered organic.
>
> I encourage Kevin to carefully read the scientific table-top research
> studies from Australia,
> http://adl.brs.gov.au/data/warehouse/biochar9abcm001/biochar9abcm00101/TR.2011.06_Biochar_v1.0.0.pdf
>
>  and  the US,
> http://www.biochar-us.org/pdf%20files/biochar_report_lowres.pdf,  for a
> reasonable up-to-date summary of the best known scientific evidence of why
> it was used by the ancients for MILLENNIA.
>
> I am pragmatic enough to hedge on my own to incrementally add biochar as I
> can.
>
> As far as having a clear answer with diagnosis and intervention with
> organic soils, intervention is going to be harder to achieve as the
> infinite nature of an organic soil does not lend itself to the very simple
> Chemistry 101 of the past Leibig-like "soil science". The present
> and future complex soil science will consider the soil as an infinite
> mixture of compounds and generally unknown bacteria, fungi, plasmids,
> prions, and elemental compounds, with unmeasurable symbiotic interactions,
> requiring meta-genetics, to get a glimpse as to what might be happening in
> any given micro environment. Good luck with funding basic organic soil
> science as the money is not there. It is the Agro-chemical-industrial
> complex that sets the priorities with funding and that is not compatable
> with organic enhancing measures like biochar. It may have to be up to us as
> Citizen Scientists to get the job done during this stage of our societies
> growth and development.
>
> We should all get used to painting with a broad brush, still using the
> Chem 101, but using a broad brush to address problems. The ancients threw
> everything back into the soil, feeding it like the soil is an
> omnivore, cultivating like it needed to respirate and respecting it like
> their life depended upon it.
>
> The soil has been treated like dirt for too long, just a petri-dish medium
> with N-P-K needs, etc. One needs to treat it like the living ecosystem that
> it is. Biochar has been proven to be effective and not harmful in any soil
> for advancing the quantity and the diversity of life. So, in my organic
> soil it is part of my compost regimen because it works well for me as it
> seemed to have work well for others for thousands of years.
>
> We need the naysayers, but they need to read and practice, too.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> CC: biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com; biochar-production at yahoogroups.com;
> biochar at yahoogroups.com
> From: kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:52:15 -0400
> Subject: Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [Stoves] [biochar]
> allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
>
>
>  Dear All
>
> Biochar is not a panacea, contrary to what its enthusiastic supporters
> infer. It works, and is beneficial in some circumstances, and it fails to
> be beneficial in others. Charcoal that is used in Agriculture as a soil
> amendment is called "Biochar", yet it has taken on a life of its own, as a
> "Climate Improvement Tool". The "Climate Improvement People" seem to assume
> that biochar is beneficial to agriculture, and don't seem to have much
> interest in whether or not biochar is an economically sound investment as
> an "agricultural additive."
>
> What would be vital to know are the circumstances where it is sensible to
> consider the use of biochar to improve agricultural productivity.
> Agricultural Science can analyze a soil and say, for example: "This soil
> needs 1.0 tons of N  and 3.5 tons of Ca per acre to turn it into a good
> garden soil." As far as I know, there is no way to make a sound and
> rational recommendation on how much biochar to add per acre. It is totally
> irresponsible, in my opinion, to recommend a general addition of (say) 10
> tonnes per hectare; some soils may attain optimal benefit with 1 tonne/Ha,
> while other soils may require 20 tonnes per Ha
>
> Some people say that "Biochar improves moisture retention characteristics
> of soil."  Just how much moisture can biochar retain? Are there better ways
> to retain moisture in the soil? For example, a kG of peat can retain about
> 7 kG of water. Biochar is notoriously difficult to wet, and it is thus
> difficult to get it to absorb or retain moisture. Perhaps the best way to
> retain moisture is to simply add the organic matter,  from which biochar
> could be made, directly to the soil?
>
> We are told that "Biochar is better than organic matter because it lasts
> 1,000+ years in the soil." Sure! Because it does not provide feed for soil
> organisms! A key concept in Organic Agriculture is "Feed the soil, and the
> plants can look after themselves.". Biochar does not "feed the soil."
>
> We are told that "Biochar is a haven for soil microbes." Well, in many
> cases, any microbes that can enter the char pores would be smothered by the
> microbes that would cover the outer surface of the individual charcoal
> grain.
>
> We are shown really nice photos of how roots head for charcoal lumps, and
> are told "See how charcoal promotes plant development!" The reality may be
> that the charcoal robs the nutrients from adjacent soil and concentrates it
> within the charcoal. The kid looking for candy goes into the candy store,
> rather than looking on the pavement outside it.
>
> We are also told that "Biochar is organic matter." If it can't feed soil
> microbes, it is not organic matter.
>
> The only thing I know for sure about biochar is that it can sequester
> carbon. Does anyone know specifically how and why biochar is beneficial to
> agriculture? Does anyone know the "soil circumstances" when and how to
> apply biochar to a soil to improve upon or eliminate a specific soil
> deficiency?
>
> A Farmer can take a soil sample, have it analysed, and competent Soil
> Scientists can tell him exactly what he should add to the soil to improve
> it. Are there ANY "soil circumstances" where a biochar addition would be
> the best additive to cure a soil deficiency?
>
> If so, what are they?
>
> Now, biochar may be effective in curing a particular condition, but there
> may be more economic alternatives for accomplishing the same end result.
> Naturally, the sensible Farmer will want to employ them rather than
> biochar, because he saves money.
>
> The bottom line question seems to be: Are there any circumstances where
> biochar additions are the best tool for the Farmer to use to improve
> productivity and reduce costs?
>
> If there are, then I would suggest that they should be clearly identified,
> as a way to expand the use of biochar, and to benefit the Farmer.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin Chisholm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Alex English <english at kingston.net>
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:35 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar
> -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
>
> Dear Anand,
> It is well documented how new drugs are often compared in trials to
> treatments that are not the best current treatment. Thus the not so
> surprising favorable results.
>
> Physicist Richard Feynman would ask to see the data, so he could draw his
> own conclusions, which could differ from the primary author.
> "*Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts"
>
> *What then is 'peer review'?
> *
> *So much of what we read about biochar sounds like a woefully inadequate
> recipe for curry. Just add spices.  Without differentiating char
> characteristics and the conditions of treatment soils, all we can conclude
> is further research is required, or go back and do it right. If you
> multiply those variables you can put a high quantity on 'expert ignorance'.
> Add a pinch of time span,and biology, then good and bad results become
> curiosities. Terra Preta  may be a fine wine now but what was it back then.
>
> Unburned Char can have value right now. Potting mix, sorption of nasties,
> crayons, even as insulation under hydronic heating lines. Physics and
> chemistry are quick. Biology is a chronic research pain that delights and
> confounds.
>
> Repeatedly we see reference to biochar being beneficial to 'highly
> weathered" tropical soils. Would you characterize any of the soils you
> added charcoal to as being "highly weathered"?
>
> Regards,
> Alex
> *
> *
> On 31/12/2011 12:14 AM, Anand Karve wrote:
>
> Dear Kevin, Crispin and Ron,
> I have been conducting experiments, off and on, for almost a decade on
> effect of charcoal applied to the soil. Most of the work consisted of very
> preliminary experiments, just to find out if application of charcoal gave
> positive results. I would have started a systematic study, if the
> preliminary results had indicated that this was a useful technology. I
> never got beyond the stage of preliminary experiments, because they did not
> reveal to me any beneficial effects on crop yield. I never reported the
> results in any formal publication, because the experiments were of a very
> preliminary nature, not conducted in statistically approved designs.
> Secondly, I want to say that It is generally the tendency among scientists
> to cite references that support one's findings. So picking and choosing
> of evidence that supports one's point of view is quite common in scientific
> publications.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>
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