[Stoves] Testing Jatropha-seed stoves for toxic emissions
Kevin
kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Wed Feb 2 10:47:44 CST 2011
Dear Paul
Subject: [Stoves] Testing Jatropha-seed stoves for toxic emissions
The nose is a great analytical tool. If you sniff the products of combustion
from a TLUD running properly on non-toxic fuel, they will have a pleasant,
or at least, not unpleasant smell. Pn the other hand, when not quite working
properly, such as at starting, there can be visible smoke and an unpleasant
smell. However, with non-toxic fuels, the "smell" is not particularily
toxic. On the other hand, if Jatropha is used and if it is at a stage of
combustion where it is making a visibly smokey fire, it is probably
dangerous through containing non-consumed J-toxins.
There are lots of references advocating "Don't go near smoke from burning
Poison Ivy." The same rule would probably apply for J-Smoke. "If you can
smell J-Smoke, don't."
Thus, while a well operating TLUD may be perfectly safe on J-Fuel, there may
be a significant problem or hazard at start-up. Perhaps teh simple solution
is "When using J-Fuel, start it outside, and do not contact smoke. Take
inside only after there is no visible smoke."
Best wishes,
Kevin Chisholm
>
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> _SUMMARY_
>
> Dear Tom and all,
>
> Tom's message (below) raises two questions (each gets a separate Subject
> line).
>
> 1. Testing for toxins in the emissions from the burning of whole
> Jatropha seeds is a valid topic. By far, most testing of Jatropha
> burning is of the OIL and not of the whole seeds. And therefore even the
> combustion devices are not the same. One answer does resolve the entire
> question.
>
> 2. TOXINS are NOT measured in the PEMS or other equipment available to
> stovers. Toxins-testing needs specialized equipment. Who has it and who
> will make it available or who will pay for such testing? Some
> universities could have such equipment. Our best hope is at the major
> centers that study Jatropha, but thus far they are researching the J-oil
> and not the J-seed, and certainly not in TLUD gasifiers.
>
> 3. Even with the equipment, the right situations need to be tested.
>
> 4. First, they need Jatropha seeds (available, but not easy to get. If
> you need some, contact me about possible sources.)
>
> 5. Second, there are different ways and differnt devices that could burn
> the whole seeds, and testing needs to match the conditions of how the
> seeds would actually be combusted. A smouldering pile of J-seeds does
> NOT have the same emissions (CO, PM, and now "toxins") as a properly
> functioning TLUD-FA gasifier. I specifically said FA (Forced Air)
> because we have such devices ready for testing, but we do not yet (close,
> but not quite) for TLUD-ND (natural draft).
>
> 6. Jatropha seeds as fuel are only the tip of the iceberg. The bigger
> topic is "oil-rich biomass." (We will AVOID the food vs. fuel debate by
> only dealing with true waste biomass that does not feed humans or
> animals.) One example is cashew shells, which have highly caustic oils
> and probably toxins.
>
> 7. I hope that this message gets passed on into other Listservs or
> directly to places which could actually conduct (or facilitate with
> payment) the testing of whole Jatropha seeds in TLUD gasifiers. On this
> topic, I am here to help (because this is certainly a TLUD-related
> topic), but it is far beyond my capabilities to accomplish the needed
> testing.
>
> 8. I will bring this topic to the attention of each of the BEF Stove
> Camps that will occur in areas with Jatropha production.
>
> Opinion: J-seed stoves are in their infancy. The J-seed TLUDs are not
> into households yet, so A) there is no need to slow down the development
> of the stoves while waiting for test results, and B) it is a great time
> to get the testing started before dissemination gets started into
> households.
>
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>
>
>
> Quoting Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>:
>
>> Crispin,
>>
>> Good thoughts. The Jatropha discussion was "toxic" in that it stimulated
>> quite a lively debate. We probably got more heat from the discussion than
>> from the stove on a cold and slightly windy day. No pot. It clearly needs
>> some careful testing. Good project for Winter stove camp (this week?)
>>
>> I didn't bring either of my testers. Unfortunately my TSI is in repair
>> (after burning it up testing a gasifier) and my Testo is in use at a
>> steam
>> boiler. Stovers don't seem to carry them. I would have liked to have
>> tested
>> the two Aprovecho charcoal stoves that were demonstrated.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Crispin
>> Pemberton-Pigott
>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:28 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Jatropha cake properties]
>>
>> Dear Tom
>>
>> Thanks to Tom, Dr Tom and Dr Paul
>>
>> Did you put a pot on it? I am interested in whether or not the flames
>> touched the pot more than usual. That has to be judged by someone who
>> knows
>> the stove and other fuels well. If the fuel is oilier, will it make the
>> flames longer to the point that they run along the pot creating more CO?
>>
>> It may be that a J-seed stove needs a different flame path length to get
>> great performance.
>>
>> Jes' thinkin'
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>> ++++++++
>> Burning Jatropha seed in a Tom Reed Woodgas Stove at ETHOS 2011. No
>> emergency vehicles were called and no adverse symptoms were recorded by
>> observers. Greatest danger was that the seeds "pop" occasionally.
>>
>> Thanks to Paul Anderson for the demonstration.
>>
>> Tom Miles
>>
>
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