[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 11, Issue 9
Philip Lloyd
plloyd at mweb.co.za
Wed Jul 13 15:49:34 CDT 2011
Crispin responding to Anil said :"I don?t think I can help with references ?
too far outside my range of experience and study. I think Prof Philip Lloyd
may be able to point to something ? he reads this list." so what else can I
do?
My experience (unpublished) with pyro oil showed they had a lot of
oxygenates - alcohols, aldehydes, ketones and even acids - and really
required hydrogenation to make them anything like a reasonable fuel. So the
quick answers to your question from my side are
A) I don't have a reference to any literature
B) I think it will be difficult to turn oils derived by vacuum pyrolysis of
biomass into paraffin-like fuels.
Regards
Prof Philip Lloyd
Energy Institute
Cape Peninsula University of Technology
PO Box 652, Cape Town 8000
Tel:021 460 4216
Fax:021 460 3828
Cell: 083 441 5247
-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: 13 July 2011 09:00
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 11, Issue 9
Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Pyrolysis oil into kerosene (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
2. Re: Pyrolysis oil into kerosene (nari phaltan)
3. Re: Pyrolysis oil into kerosene (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
4. Re: Pyrolysis oil into kerosene (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
5. Retained heat cooker initiative in South AFrica
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:08:51 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pyrolysis oil into kerosene
Message-ID: <0a7b01cc4101$d0182dc0$70488940$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Anil
It will be a form of bioparaffin which is chemically the same as biodiesel
but slightly ?thinner?. If you assume that transesterification of the input
materials makes an array of carbohydrogens from CH4 to C25H52 or so, then
the faction between C9H20 and C20H42 will be ?paraffin? by general
classification.
If it is already very thin oil (not like sunflower oil, for example) it may
need polymerisation, not mild decomposition with caustic soda. If you have
a) and ultimate analysis and b) some characterisation of the chain lengths
perhaps the biodiesel or bioenergy association of some country could give
you an estimated yield. For example http://www.saba.za.org/site One of their
members (at least) makes a container-mounted sunflower to diesel unit that
produces about 3 litres per second.
Regards
Crispin
Hello Stovers,
Is anybody in the group aware of any work on converting pyrolysis oil into
kerosene? Any numbers on the yields (kg of kerosene/kg of residues or raw
material).
Any references will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers. Anil
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a
ttachments/20110712/f7aaaf24/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:16:29 +0530
From: nari phaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pyrolysis oil into kerosene
Message-ID:
<CAGeG2tA3BdvCbPC9LJOn2t1MGV_9i5chGvygysqjmHxDgfsk7g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks Crispin for the insight and details. In 1992 when pyrolysis oil R&D
was in infancy I was involved little bit in its propagation and research.
Since I left this field long ago I was interested in knowing whether
somebody has been able to produce kerosene directly from biomass via the
fast combustion process rather than going through pyrolysis oil route.
Any published work on this?
Warm regards. Anil
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Anil****
>
> ** **
>
> It will be a form of bioparaffin which is chemically the same as
> biodiesel but slightly ?thinner?. If you assume that
> transesterification of the input materials makes an array of
> carbohydrogens from CH4 to C25H52 or so, then the faction between
> C9H20 and C20H42 will be ?paraffin? by general
> classification.****
>
> ** **
>
> If it is already very thin oil (not like sunflower oil, for example)
> it may need polymerisation, not mild decomposition with caustic soda.
> If you have
> a) and ultimate analysis and b) some characterisation of the chain
> lengths perhaps the biodiesel or bioenergy association of some country
> could give you an estimated yield. For example
> http://www.saba.za.org/site One of their members (at least) makes a
> container-mounted sunflower to diesel unit that produces about 3
> litres per second.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> Crispin****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Hello Stovers,
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Is anybody in the group aware of any work on converting pyrolysis oil
> into kerosene? Any numbers on the yields (kg of kerosene/kg of
> residues or raw
> material).****
>
> ** **
>
> Any references will be greatly appreciated.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers. Anil****
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
--
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
P.O.Box 44 Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
Ph:91-2166-222396/220945
e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
anilrajvanshi at gmail.com
http://www.nariphaltan.org
http://nariphaltan.virtualave.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a
ttachments/20110713/4d110ce3/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:06:12 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pyrolysis oil into kerosene
Message-ID: <0adf01cc4155$43183fb0$c948bf10$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Anil and Roger Samson (of Switchgrass fame)
The University of Illinois has been looking at making bioethanol from
grasses instead of corn (which I suppose is still a form of grass!) and
concluded that Roger is in the right track: use Switchgrass for more
productivity.
Now, all they have to do is convince themselves that burning switchgrass
pellets is better than bothering to make liquid fuels from it.
Ignore the part of the paper that says there will be a reduction in
greenhouses gases of 473%. Not all researchers are good at math.
Regards
Crispin
>From
>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/12/the-grass-is-greener-on-the-ethan
>ol-model-side/#more-43344
The grass is greener on the ethanol model side
Posted on
<http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/12/the-grass-is-greener-on-the-ethanol-m
odel-side/> July 12, 2011 by
<http://wattsupwiththat.com/author/wattsupwiththat/> Anthony Watts
>From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
><http://www.uiuc.edu/>
Switch from corn to grass would raise ethanol output, cut emissions
CHAMPAIGN, Ill. ? Growing perennial grasses on the least productive farmland
now used for corn ethanol production in the U.S. would result in higher
overall corn yields, more ethanol output per acre and better groundwater
quality, researchers report in a new study
<http://www.esajournals.org/toc/fron/0/0> . The switch would also slash
emissions of two potent greenhouse gases: carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide.
The study used a computer model of plant growth and soil chemistry to
compare the ecological effects of growing corn (Zea mays L.); miscanthus
(Miscanthus x giganteus), a sterile hybrid grass used in bioenergy
production in Western Europe; and switchgrass (Panicum virgatum L.), which
is native to the U.S.
The analysis found that switching 30 percent of the least productive corn
acres to miscanthus offered the most ecological advantages.
?If cellulosic feedstocks (such as miscanthus) were planted on cropland that
is currently used for ethanol production in the U.S., we could achieve more
ethanol (plus 82 percent) and grain for food (plus 4 percent), while
reducing nitrogen leaching (minus 15 to 22 percent) and greenhouse gas
emissions (minus 29 percent to 473 percent),? the researchers wrote in their
report, published in the journal Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment.
[snip]
The paper, ?Impact of Second-Generation Biofuel Agriculture on Greenhouse
Gas Emissions in the Corn-Growing Regions of the U.S.,? is available online
or from the U. of I. News Bureau.
+++++++++
Thanks Crispin for the insight and details. In 1992 when pyrolysis oil R&D
was in infancy I was involved little bit in its propagation and research.
Since I left this field long ago I was interested in knowing whether
somebody has been able to produce kerosene directly from biomass via the
fast combustion process rather than going through pyrolysis oil route.
Any published work on this?
Warm regards. Anil
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Anil
It will be a form of bioparaffin which is chemically the same as biodiesel
but slightly ?thinner?. If you assume that transesterification of the input
materials makes an array of carbohydrogens from CH4 to C25H52 or so, then
the faction between C9H20 and C20H42 will be ?paraffin? by general
classification.
If it is already very thin oil (not like sunflower oil, for example) it may
need polymerisation, not mild decomposition with caustic soda. If you have
a) and ultimate analysis and b) some characterisation of the chain lengths
perhaps the biodiesel or bioenergy association of some country could give
you an estimated yield. For example http://www.saba.za.org/site One of their
members (at least) makes a container-mounted sunflower to diesel unit that
produces about 3 litres per second.
Regards
Crispin
Hello Stovers,
Is anybody in the group aware of any work on converting pyrolysis oil into
kerosene? Any numbers on the yields (kg of kerosene/kg of residues or raw
material).
Any references will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers. Anil
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a
ttachments/20110713/5323e4c8/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:06:12 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pyrolysis oil into kerosene
Message-ID: <0aec01cc4155$44f256e0$ced704a0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Anil
I don?t think I can help with references ? too far outside my range of
experience and study. I think Prof Philip Lloyd may be able to point to
something ? he reads this list.
There is a great deal of work going on in the field. Something that probably
makes problems is that biomass is so wet. There is likely to be a moisture
problem with anything you wring out of biomass by any means!
It seems to me that you will need to develop a very specific treatment for a
particular input fuel. I doubt the idea will turn into a system into which
you toss biomass and get out a liquid fuel. There is a lot of merit in
making gas and burning that directly. Liquid fuels are a hassle.
Regards
Crispin
+++++++++
Thanks Crispin for the insight and details. In 1992 when pyrolysis oil R&D
was in infancy I was involved little bit in its propagation and research.
Since I left this field long ago I was interested in knowing whether
somebody has been able to produce kerosene directly from biomass via the
fast combustion process rather than going through pyrolysis oil route.
Any published work on this?
Warm regards. Anil
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a
ttachments/20110713/6c44410b/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:38:47 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] Retained heat cooker initiative in South AFrica
Message-ID: <0b1c01cc4159$de568a50$9b039ef0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Friends
New household CDM project for SA
_____
An energy-saving scheme, designed to notably reduce the usage of
electricity, gas, paraffin and wood fires for cooking in households across
all South African communities, was announced by Wonderbag in partnership
with Frog and Microsoft South Africa in June 2011.
See http://www.sanea.org.za/MediaCentre/SaneaTalkingEnergy/2011/06/05.asp
Regards
Crispin
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a
ttachments/20110713/2dfafbf1/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
End of Stoves Digest, Vol 11, Issue 9
*************************************
More information about the Stoves
mailing list