[Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latest imprecise reporting of facts (rongretlarson at comcast.net)

Sun Jul 24 13:14:43 CDT 2011

Xavier and cc stove list: 

I own a 7 kW (name plate) PV system and have worked peripherally on what you call SHS systems in Sudan, Ethiopia and Zimbabwe. I understand very well how easy it is for something to go wrong - generally not with the panels. But with the right sort of company giving service, I believe they can work. But I do applaud your suggested use of PV lanterns - which have become amazingly cheap . Some are capable of cell phone recharge and radio service as well. 

So I am not surprised that you could assemble a set of quotes on SHS problems. Unfortunately, I couldn't make anything work at the google docs site. I look forward to your sending me something directly and/or telling me what I may be doing incorrectly (I have received from this site before.). 

PV is too far from our core stove topics to discuss this much more, but I would like to hear from you on whether you see similar problems for the emerging rural stoves industry? I just saw a nice stand-alone teapot which could generate enough electricity to recharge cell phones. Earlier I have seen several wood stoves that could do the same. Do you have recommendations for this list along these lines? (To my knowledge, no omerta here.) 

Ron 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Xavier Brandao" <xvr.brandao at gmail.com> 
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:43:40 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latest imprecise reporting of facts (rongretlarson at comcast.net) 

Dear Ron, 

Yes, I am very happy to share this document to anyone, thanks for your 
interest. There were a few references to internal documents of the 
foundation, I removed them, the rest is not confidential and can be shared 
with everyone. 
I send it to you by email, and also post it on Google documents here : 
C 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nRXa32OgE0uPuyakSPlpPA0xqmU0hnH59Q7WAIof918/edit?pli=1PIc/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1 

This a bit off-topic, but perhaps a few people on this list have worked with 
solar in developing countries. The goal of this document was to show there 
are many questions about the suitability of the Solar Home Systems, also 
called SHS, to developing countries, especially to rural areas and to the 
bottom of the pyramid. A SHS is a kit composed of a solar panel + battery + 
regulator + plugs + bulbs. 
Many hints showed projects with difficulties around the world. In my 
opinion, SHS is not an appropriate technology. It is a costly technology, 
with technical limitations, made in developed countries and to be shipped to 
developing countries, then to remote regions. A technology which satisfies 
only certain needs : some light, radio and a small TV. No productive use of 
the electricity. SHS need maintenance, trained users and qualified 
technicians. I believe in electrification and solar for the third world, but 
rather with solar lanterns, or carefully localized solar power plants. 

All the indicators for the foundation projects were red, yet no one would 
react or question the technology. Amazing. No one at the board would hear 
that something was wrong. I collected info during months, while carefully 
trying to start a discussion. The team of business developers tried also, 
but no critics were allowed. This was NOT open to discussion. I had a few 
words with the board, questioning the unattainable objectives. I sent a long 
email to everyone in the foundation, trying to break the omerta and start a 
public debate. I was fired without warning sometime after :) Up till now, 
the foundation goes on with SHS. It is not going better for them, actually 
it is going much worse. 

I am sure the same story happens everyday, and will happen again. 

Xavier 

<<< Message: 3 
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 00:10:10 +0000 (UTC) 
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net 
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latest 
imprecise reporting of facts. (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott) 
Message-ID: 

<1592677650.193756.1311293410736.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.co 
mcast.net> 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 

Xavier, list etal 

1. Thanks for the added insight - with which I mostly agree. The "mostly" 
refers to the word "hidden". BFW is very open about wanting to kill all 
forms of biofuel. Maybe "most" is more accurate - but I haven't seen a 
bio-gas or bio-liquid they liked. They may have approved of indigenous 
groups collecting fuel wood for cooking and heating. 

2. As you say - almost (?) every organization has a desire for self 
preservation. BFW has no reason to be an exception. The problem as BFW 
relates to Biochar is that they apparently see Biochar only as another 
biofuel.. Biochar proponents, like most on the Biochar lists generally place 
energy (or biofuels) last (if at all) among the three obvious potential 
dollar flows.. The stoves list is more divided - but rarely open 
hostility/denial towards sequestration or soil benefits, which BFW either 
ignores or denies.. Jobs, rural economic development, reduced irrigation and 
fertilizer needs, nutrient retention etc - all have to be put down by BFW- 
even though they have little place in the world of biofuels. 

3. Our Biochar job is to show that Biochar is inherently different from 
biofuels (because so many benefits can be retained at the site of converting 
biomass to Biochar) This assumes that the people willing to pay for 
sequestration agree that conversion should be done where the biomass is 
grown and harvested. We in the developed world need the developing world - 
and there are not many (any?) economic arenas where we can say that. 

Ron 

3. I'd like to see your 15 page list of quotes, if you care to. I promise 
confidentiality. 

Ron >>> 

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