[Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latestimprecisereporting of facts.

[Fireside Hearth]

Hello Greg. 



        It would seem to me that you might just be someone intelligent 
enough to look past your own world and see that someone who lacks the 
jargon  and self indulgence enough to see that a person with out all the
 scientific crap might have come up with something new and different. It
 is this person I wish to chat with. Feel free to contact me at 
firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com.  I will not be insulted by the rest of
 the list anymore. 



           Roger and Bridget Lehet. 

From: icecool at qanet.gm
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:54:21 +0000
Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's	latestimprecisereporting of facts.










Hi Steve / Crispin / Roger of Fireside
 
I'm another of these guys who just hasn't got the tech. 
language or knowledge so I rely on our experts here and I just try to understand 
and comprehend.
 
Looking at Crispin's and Steve's posts about 4 hours apart 
addressing just about the same topic explaining to Roger the ins and outs of 
...... call it energy efficiency / need/ release...... I can understand that 
Roger is getting confused watching this group.
 
I see 2 explanations using different methods and by having 
to make assumptions I accept that the results may vary to a certain degree. But 
Steve, to say that 5 lb "just about" are 2 kg (it's actually "about" 2.27 which 
is a 10 % difference which is when multiplied up ALOT).
 
I really haven't got the time to do alot copy and pasting 
here but you both use different base figures to calculate the same thing and OF 
COURSE end up with totally different results:
Crispin 2.68 hrs at 100 % efficiency
Steve 1.6 hrs (efficiency not declared)
 
Confusing? Of course. And maybe we see now 2 days spent 
analysing why there is that difference. Maybe THAT's what Roger means when he 
says lets just get on with doing things. I agree. BUT also let's try to get the 
science to a level where we see the same results from different people - because 
if we can't get TAHT right how are we expecting to be taken seriously from 
either newcomers to the group or the "world at large" when we go out there and 
lobby for these 1 billion stoves (or, like some of us, actually trying to get 
them where they belong)?
 
OK, off the box - gotta get out there to these people here 
in sunny/rainy Gambia and try to explain to THEM why and how it all works...... 
wished I could be clearer in MY head!
 
Cheers
George from the ever depleting jungle!
 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Steve Taylor 
  To: Discussion of biomass cooking 
  stoves 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:19 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies 
  to BioFuelWatyche's latestimprecisereporting of facts.
  
Roger. 

Here's the maths as I see it.

There is an 
  accepted amount of energy you can extract from a piece of wood. The very best 
  case  is a piece of oven dried wood, burning in pure oxygen - which is 
  unrealistic, so from this site http://www.woodgas.com/fuel_densities.htm 
  I can get a value which I am going to call 15 MegaJoules per kilogram. A joule 
  is the SI unit of energy. 4.2 Joules heats one gram of water one degree 
  centigrade. We use SI units in here, because it makes the math easier for 
  everyone.

The group will argue with my choice of 15MJ, but we accept it 
  isn't 10 x smaller or larger than the "right" value. 

A 5 lb log is, 
  near as damn it for the purposes of illustration, 2kg in SI. That means it 
  contains 2 x 15,000,000 Joules of releasable energy, 30 MegaJoules (MJ) 
  

Now, a rate of releasing energy, in Joules/second is called  a 
  Watt. 1 Joule/second = 1 Watt.

5kW = 5000 J/Sec 
To release 5kW, we 
  have to release 5000 joules per second. 

You have 30,000,000 Joules in 
  your log. Burning at 5000 J/s, it can do that for 30,000,000/5000 seconds. 
  That's 6000 seconds, or 6000/3600 = 1.6 hours. 

So all things begin 
  equal, and Ron says you are claiming a burn-time of 12 hours, you are 
  releasing energy at 30,000,000 / 3600 / 12....or 700 
  W

Steve

  

  
  

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