[Stoves] Coal stoves in Mongolia

Fireside Hearth firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com
Thu Jul 28 01:10:33 CDT 2011


Hi Kevin......

         For those who read the story behind my stove, It started as a pellet burner with a 12 volt auger and feeding system with many parts stolen from my chevrolet delay windshield wiper system. That was too easy. Who could fail with a 35/1 air to fuel ratio. Making a wood burner burn as smoke free and with as little a per hour fuel usage was more difficult. Making something that could burn saltwater driftwood,charcoal, and or coal was the next step. The difference in coal between washington, or the east coast is huge, and the same is true from what I hear of the Mongolian coal. IF I got a good sample ( which I think I may have coming to me) I could prove to myself weather or not I can do the same with it. But burning a fuel not common to the end user leaves allot in question......Yes?

           From here on should you wish to chat further please respond to me outside the list. I got some fairly nasty comments sent directly to me and feel this list is not a place where I will get anything done. I am finding much faster rate of action in other places.
      Sincerely..........Roger and Bridget Lehet
firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com

From: kchisholm at ca.inter.net
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:52:37 -0300
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Coal stoves in Mongolia










Dear Fireside
 
Crispin gave you a typical analysis for the coal he used 
when he designed, built, tested, and taught local Mongolians how to build very 
efficient coal stoves. Why not start simply by trying to burn local coal in your 
stove? Perhaps your stove might not work with coal. It would be good to know 
this before you went to the expense of getting a coal sample shipped in from 
Mongolia.
 
Have you tried burning pellets, wood chips, and stickwood 
in your stove? A stove designed to burn 5 pound extruded fire logs may not work 
well on these other fuels.
 
Don't underestimate the importance of Science and 
Measurements as a vital part of the Art of Stove Design.
 
Best wishes,
 
Kevin

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Fireside Hearth 
  To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:49 
PM
  Subject: Re: [Stoves] Coal stoves in 
  Mongolia
  

  Hello and thanks for 
  responding.

        So lets start 
  with this. I am no where near as educated in the scientific language as this 
  group, no doubt. What I have created is a double burn system which can go for 
  up to 12 hours in one 5 lb log. I see NO SMOKE from our 3"stack once I get to 
  a temperature of over 600 deg. f. Our secondary combustion temps run in excess 
  of 1500 deg. F. creating a smokeless burn for hours, and can be reloaded 
  during use. I do realize that Coal (not a favorite of mine) does burn 
  differently and I would like to test my stove on this fuel so as to have the 
  chance to tweek my unit to burn it cleanly. I am reading and trying to 
  understand all that I can. Sometimes I think that too much science makes 
  things too complex. Maybe being a simple guy without all the math is what 
  helped me do what I did. Either way there is no way of getting around the fact 
  that what this stove does do is to get more heat energy out of the same fuel 
  load, and releasing less into the environment. Both are characteristics 
  necessary for attacking these issues. By the way we watched this work in the 
  puget sound area, why could it not work in Mongolia? 


  
  
  Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 02:35:57 +0000
From: 
  rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: 
  [Stoves] Coal stoves in Mongolia


  
  

  Crispin  
  (cc list)

1.  Changed thread name to reflect the 
  dialog.

  2.  I had great hopes (based on your writings) for 
  a simple Mongolian BLDD.  Where does that fit into the general scheme for 
  Mongolia?  The BLDD doesn't seem appropriate for most cooking chores - 
  but seemed pretty perfect for heating.  (Not thinking about making coke - 
  but there should be that possibility also    Ron


  
  From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" 
  <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking 
  stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Monday, July 
  25, 2011 7:53:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to 
  BioFuelWatyche's        latestimprecisereporting 
  of facts.


  

  
  Dear 
  Roger
   
  P.S. any idea's 
  how I can get a sample of the coal being used in Mongolia? I understand they 
  use 4 metric tones a year by 1,300,000 yurts per year. I think I could cut 
  this down to less than one ton, but need a sample of this 
  stuff.


  
  Saving 
  coal is not as straight forward as burning less. The need for heat is 
  absolute, meaning that you have to deliver an average of 4kW minimum into the 
  home. If the system is 80% efficient it means having a 5kW fire going 
  constantly.
  The 
  number of yurts (gers, as they are called) is about 100,000 with the number 
  declining slowly as people build more permanent housing. Coal is not used 
  outside Ulaanbaatar domestically, and in fact viewed historically is only a 
  recently used fuel.
  I 
  am interested in know what you think of as ‘clean’ with your coal burner. We 
  are expressing the emissions in terms of heat delivered into the home so that 
  the figure incorporates the thermal efficiency into the number. For stoves 
  receiving a subsidy to the homeowner, the CO limit is 7 g/MJ delivered and 
  PM2.5 is 70 mg/MJ. Some stoves are below 1 mg/MJ which is extremely clean. One 
  is a crossdraft and the other is a TLUD that can be refuelled under certain 
  circumstances. They are very different to look at.
  The 
  coal consumption per urban domestic home is 4,500 kg per year on average, 
  burning about 1 kg per hour in winter. The coal is from the Nalaikh Mine, 
  mostly, and the analysis is 25% moisture, 50% volatiles after drying and 8-12% 
  ash. The sulphur is very low at <0.4%.
  It 
  lights easily and has enormous volumes of smoke if placed on a burning fire 
  (which is the main air quality problem in UB). If a TLUD is refuelled hot, it 
  is a nightmare. It is essential that the stove be refuelled for continuous 
  operation. That has led to hopper stoves having the most promise. 
  The 
  qualifying stoves range from $80 to $160 and one imported TLUD made of cast 
  iron with a ceramic liner is $275 or so. The cleanest, cheap stove is a 
  crossdraft burner with a flame tube for the smoke and CO to burn inside the 
  heat exchanger. This layout has been successful in several very different 
  products.
  Regards
  Crispin
   
   
  
  > Date: Mon, 25 
  Jul 2011 06:33:04 +0200
> From: rwhongser at web.de
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; 
  crispinpigott at gmail.com
> 
  Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's 
  latestimprecisereporting of facts.
> 
> Dear Crispin,
> 
  
> 2SISTLUDPSXDCPZ-RF
> 
> There, I think we're making 
  progress now.
> 
> Ronald von der AS(BY)EAA
> 
> p.s. 
  Aussenstelle(Bayern)EuropäischeAbkurzungsAmt  /*bitte nicht bei der EU 
  anzeigen!*/
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche 
  Nachricht-----
> Von: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> 
  Gesendet: Jul 25, 2011 5:36:45 AM
> An: "Discussion of biomass cooking 
  stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> 
  Betreff: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's 
  latestimprecisereporting of facts.
> 
> >Thanks for the 
  reminder about names, Andrew. Here's another:
> >
> >I have 
  been trying to characterise the combustion type for the GIZ 7 series coal 
  stoves in Mongolia and it does not fit easily into standard categories. To 
  make matters worse Prof Lodoysamba has used a true TLUD charge of coal in the 
  combustion chamber to start the stove and it was very successful. That means 
  it is a TLUD-ignited cross-draft stove with a continuously pyrolysing zone at 
  the bottom of a refillable hopper.
> >
> >That to occupy the 
  nomenclaturists for a while.
> >
> >Regards
> 
  >Crispin
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: "Andrew 
  C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
> 
  >Sender: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  >Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:23:57
> >To: Discussion of biomass 
  cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> 
  >Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> 
  >Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's 
  latestimprecise
> > reporting of facts.
> >
> >This 
  is a discussion list. Some of us discuss. Some of us lurk. Some of
> 
  >us know what we are talking about. Some of us wish we knew what we 
  were
> >talking about. Sometimes we don't volunteer a distinction. 
  Some of us
> >act. Some of us act up -- once in awhile. Sometimes 
  things get out of
> >hand, but we get over it -- usually. If you 
  thought the discussion was
> >hot on CAGW and CO2 credits, wait until 
  we start in on nomenclature.
> >Welcome to the list.
> 
  >
> >
> >Andrew Parker (Not AJH)
> >
> 
  >
> >On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:34:48 -0600, Fireside Hearth
> 
  ><firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com> 
  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hello....
> 
  >>
> >> As a new kid on the block I am sorta surprised by 
  the amount of
> >> time spent by people who seem to care, on such 
  a point. You all will not
> >> agree....probably ever! There, 
  someone said it! Now in the amount of
> >> time wasted, what could 
  have been accomplished through
> >> action........talk is 
  cheap!
> >
> >
> >
> 
  >_______________________________________________
> >Stoves mailing 
  list
> >
> >to Send a Message to the list, use the email 
  address
> >stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  >
> >to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web 
  page
> >http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  >
> >for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our 
  web site:
> >http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> 
  >_______________________________________________
> >Stoves mailing 
  list
> >
> >to Send a Message to the list, use the email 
  address
> >stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  >
> >to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web 
  page
> >http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  >
> >for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our 
  web site:
> >http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> 
> 
  
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves 
  mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email 
  address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> 
  http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
  
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web 
  site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> 
  
_______________________________________________
Stoves 
  mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email 
  address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change 
  your List Settings use the web 
  page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for 
  more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web 
  site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/


_______________________________________________ 
  Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
  stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings 
  use the web page 
  http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 
  for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
  http://www.bioenergylists.org/
  
  

  _______________________________________________
Stoves mailing 
  list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email 
  address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change 
  your List Settings use the web 
  page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for 
  more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web 
  site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/


  
  

  
  No virus found in this 
  message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus 
  Database: 1518/3789 - Release Date: 07/26/11

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110727/5bacc576/attachment.html>


More information about the Stoves mailing list