[Stoves] Misuderstanding of TLUD stoves Re: Refuelable TLUD Coal Stove developed in Mongolia that is not a batch process.

[Paul S. Anderson]

see below

Quoting Ron Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>:

> Paul and ccs:
>
>    I had not realized that your Chip Furnace operated in the manner  
> you describe below.  Am I correct then in assuming that the word  
> pyrolyzer (which you didn't use) would be inapproproriate - and that  
> char production is minimal?

Char production is controlable by the operator.  With fast throughput,  
we could extract chars with many volatiles and some torrified fuel.   
With very slow throughput, it could output only ash/minimal char.  The  
control also allows for use of different fuel in the same device (but  
not at the same time).  Chip Energy furnaces make char if (and how)  
you want it.
>
>    But also that much of your other writing is on char-making stoves  
> of a batch type and that you would then not use the term "gasifier"?

"Gasification" to the majority of readers includes making gases via  
pyrolysis and/or by char-gasification.  A gasifier can pyrolyze.
>
>    I have not heard whether Nat Mulcahy demonstrated at the Ethos  
> meeting that he could add extra fuel at the end of a run - and that  
> TLUD was therefore Inappropriate for his design.

Nat did not operate any of his stoves at ETHOS.  He did explain why he  
does not consider his stoves to be TLUD technology.
>
>    I believe (perhaps like Crispin) that a BLDD could produce char -  
> and could add extra fuel at the top - and hope that someone will  
> report on that pair of desirable characteristics in a collating.

Good luck.  I too await such a report, but that technology works  
against the creation of char.  Meanwhile, I have a char-making device  
in the form of the Chip Energy Biomass Furnace and (as of this past  
month) the Chip Energy "Dragon" (shoots out fire or combustible gases  
to the user-provided destination/application - US$15,000 with variable  
configurations.)

-- 
Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Known to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc    Professor
Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu




>
> Ron
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 3, 2011, at 12:30 PM, "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>:
>>    snipped
>>>
>>> A TLUD is just a down draft built upside down. They can be  
>>> refuelled continuously but if the desire is to get char out, that  
>>> could be a problem.
>>>
>> This is a very common misunderstanding that was even promoted by  
>> Tom Reed who initialy call it "inverted down draft" gasification.
>>
>> In a true downdraft gasifier, there is a hot zone that stays at the  
>> bottom all the time, and the fuel moves downward to it, becomes  
>> char and is later subjected to char gasification.  The air flow is  
>> also downward.
>>
>> In a TLUD, the hot zone starts at the top, but then the hot  
>> pyrolysis front migrates downward until reaching the bottom of the  
>> fuel pile.  That is FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT from the downdraft  
>> gasifiers.
>>
>> Furthermore, after the pyrolysis front reaches the bottom, the air  
>> flow still continues to be updraft.  Placing a significant amount  
>> of fuel onto the top of the fuel bed can cause variations in the  
>> gases created (initially much water vapor while the fuel is drying,  
>> then the pyrolytic gases start later).
>>
>> Note:  In the case of the Chip Energy Biomass Furnace  
>> (www.chipenergy.com) which is a true updraft gasifier with  
>> continuous operation (and the hot zone is at the bottom where the  
>> air is entering), the new fuel enters in small amounts, avoiding  
>> the problem mentioned in the above paragraph about water vapor.
>>
>> I hope this helps explain what is happening in the TLUDs
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
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