[Stoves] Is this where we are headed ?

Mon Mar 21 20:21:25 CDT 2011

Dear Richard and Tom

One of the hardest things for programmes aimed at distribution masses of
stoves or spending millions (literally) on is that the products they
fantasize they need simple don't exist. It comes up again and again: mass
pressure to spend on what the fiancé guys think is awaiting on the shelf
while dozens of techno geeks produce a working model of the miracle solution
each claim they can solve the problem.

It is very hard for us inventors to admit that we need more than 100
solutions. That said, it is very possible that not one of the regional
meetings will invent their unique solution to any meaningful standard. One
of the primary, the rootest of all root cause for this is because the
methods used to evaluate stoves can't effectively tell whether a proposed
stove is better than the ones it is supposed to replace, judged from several
points of view.

I have recently tested an improved stove of which several thousand copies
were made. The improvement was the lower emissions claimed, when measured
against the baseline. In fact the emissions were at least twice as high as
the original. If the measuring taking place on the ground in dispersed
meeting points can't find out that the emissions are twice as bad, is it any
wonder that there is no progress in hundreds of locations?

There may be one hundred local meetings but there has to be a modicum of
real science involved in the process so incremental, if not radical
solutions can be systematically developed. 

Looking for solutions does not work if everyone is sitting in the dark. Lots
of searching but they don't find much.

Regards
Crispin

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: 21 March 2011 19:14
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Is this where we are headed ?

Richard,

Understood and Agreed. 

Welcome to the Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves
http://cleancookstoves.org/

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Stanley
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 3:18 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Is this where we are headed ?

Tom,

 I was being entirely facetious in posting that image of the artical abou
'fuelwood, getting it right'.

Do we think that such a collection of agencies, however well coordinated,
will make one whit of difference to the 90% of those actually using basic
cook stoves  every day ? It is of course ostensibly a "good thing" to have
"coordination" but when that coordination becomes so removed from direct
realities, that it chokes initiative and local involvement of those it is
supposed to help,  then, one has to ask ...
 Quo vadis? 
Another king has no clothes question arises in a recent global  conference
on clean air in a latin american nation Like the above initiative it is a
wonderful idea to coordinate but one has to ask really, what is the carbon
footprint of flying the 300 plus participants in form around the globe,  to
talk about clean cooking stoves ?
There were no local users present, no food was even cooked on the stoves.
Who then is driving the design and ownership process on which all these
efforts are to flourish ?  

In the real world, would it not be better spent on very much more localized
meetings involving more local actors with more direct local consequences?  

Regards,

Richard Stanley

On Mar 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Tom Miles wrote:

> Link:
> 
>
http://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/press-room/journal-articles/1080-fuel
> wood-getting-it-right
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Richard 
> Stanley
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 11:56 AM
> To: Stoves and biofuels network
> Subject: [Stoves] Is this where we are headed ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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