[Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions

Sun Oct 23 19:54:43 CDT 2011

Hi Ron,

1.) For the EPA we tried to burn all the fuel about 2/3 as wood and 1/3 as
charcoal to get the best fuel economy.
2.) As far as I can tell, no primary air can make it up through the pellets
until 2/3 fuel is gone and the bottom air gets up through the remaining
charcoal.
3.) I don't remember exactly. We used a StoveTec Rocket and added something
like a 9" chimney. We probably used around 1000 grams of fuel to begin.
4.) No.
5.) No field tests yet.
6.) TLUD cost could be the same as a Rocket.

I hope that some place in the world will be positioned to make 100%
renewable pellets, get carbon credits, and use super clean TLUDs. We'll see.
Natural draft is obviously easier than having to use an electric fan. I
think that it's possible that some government or large business will follow
the BP model. I think that the job of the stove movement is to be ready with
the engineering design principles for TLUDs, fan stoves, super clean Rockets
when a capable entity is ready to move forward.

All Best,

Dean

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:

> Dean  -  with few ccs.
>
>
> Thanks for the added information.  Just a few more questions:
>
> 1.  Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did
> you then obtain, if tried?
>
> 2.  What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did
> that help with the test?
>
> 3.  For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters,
> heights, fuel amount, etc).
>
> 4.  Were you using a convective shield?
>
> 5.   If tested in the field, any response yet by users?
>
> 6.  Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Ron
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> *To: *rongretlarson at comcast.net
> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove
> Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,
> mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions
> hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.
>
> The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the
> fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air
> as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or
> simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention
> to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.
>
> I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by
> controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to
> do.
>
> Great to hear from you.
>
> Dean
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Dean (cc list and Paul)
>>
>>      Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
>>
>>      I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across
>> as being very successful.
>>
>>     Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an
>> existing web description?   What might you have done differently than other
>> TLUDS?
>>
>>     Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report
>> graphs?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>>
>>
>> http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot
>> of your questions are answered there.
>>
>> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
>> emission equipment.
>>
>> All Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Dean and all,
>>>
>>> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have
>>> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
>>>
>>> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice.
>>>  Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any
>>> other place with PEMS equipment?
>>>
>>> Question:  Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent
>>> with instructions?  Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for
>>> those who live within a hundred miles!!
>>>
>>> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using?   By
>>> the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
>>>
>>> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
>>> version of the other WBT's?  I would like a short summary, not just a
>>> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
>>> differences are not pointed out.
>>>
>>> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
>>>
>>>  ??? With fans:  Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and
>>> Belonio (??) others?
>>>
>>>  ??? And natural draft:  Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec
>>> (yes) and what else?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> --
>>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Known to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc    Professor
>>> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf<http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf>  (Best ref.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>  Hi Stovers!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
>>>> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very
>>>> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
>>>>
>>>> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully
>>>> compete
>>>> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
>>>> Reed,
>>>> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented
>>>> and
>>>> developed the TLUD!
>>>>
>>>> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if
>>>> you'd
>>>> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
>>>>
>>>> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
>>>> better?
>>>>
>>>> All Best,
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
>>> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111023/5925c30a/attachment.html>