[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 14, Issue 31

Norman Rene Sandoval Siles nrene.sandoval at gmail.com
Thu Oct 27 22:15:30 CDT 2011


Paul and the other ones

It is very interesting the work that you/they are making, for my part hopes
to see this Technology very soon in Nicaragua, definitively I hope they are
distributing it.

2011/10/17 <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Interested in the of Rice Husk Stoves of Alexis Belonio
>      (Paul Olivier)
>   2. Re: POTASIUM basics (Frans Peeters)
>   3. Re: High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for  the
>      PLACE (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>   4. Re: High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for the
>      PLACE (Fireside Hearth)
>   5. Re: why does coffee husk biochar smell like urine? (Tom Miles)
>   6. Re: High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for  the
>      PLACE (Steve Taylor)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:32:43 +0700
> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Interested in the of Rice Husk Stoves of Alexis
>        Belonio
> Message-ID:
>        <CAOreFvZHm_6zTqhzPgV-CxAAf=F94ZFR0LhxvZ+5UEnBsYXE2g at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Norman,
>
> We will soon begin the mass production of gasifier parts,
> especially those parts that are difficult to make one at a time.
> Mass production lowers costs by as much as 60%, sometimes even more.
> All parts that we will offer (except for the burner) are in stainless
> steel.
> We want to make these parts available to workshops in developing countries
> at basically our cost.
> We also intend to buy fans in large quantities to lower costs.
> Some parts that I have designed are interchangeable across gasifiers
> ranging
> in diameter from 100 to 500 mm.
> Here in Vietnam we can mass produce items more cheaply than in China.
> We will sell these items, of course, at a higher prices in developed
> countries,
> and this higher price will subsidize the sale of gasifier parts in
> developing countries.
>
> Here is the reactor of a 150 gasifier.
> This part you could easily make yourself:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/150%20Gasifier.jpg
> Let us add the handles.
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/002.jpg
> They screw on to the reactor:
> Let us add the air pipe:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/003.jpg
> The air pipe also serves as a handle and a leg.
> Note that it has a press fitting that allows the fan assembly to be easily
> mounted:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/004.jpg
> The fan used here is strong enough to power all sizes of gasifiers that we
> offer.
>
> It is important to remove the fan at the end of each batch.
> When the reactor is in an upside down position in emptying it of char,
> hot gases rush through the air pipe and can damage the fan in just a few
> months.
> Of course the reactor has a grate at the bottom:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/005.jpg
>
> Next comes the burner:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/006.jpg
> This is essentially a Belonio burner, but we will mass produce in cast
> iron.
> Next comes the burner housing:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Jpegs5/007.jpg
> The burner housing allows for a big turn-down ratio.
> It also shields the flame from wind, and it routes hot secondary air to the
> burner holes.
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/IMG_0444.JPG
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/IMG_0445.JPG
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/IMG_0448.JPG
> With the burner housing, rice hull gas burns with a blue flame right from
> the beginning of the burn.
>
> Do not look too closely in these pictures at the position of the flamelets
> relative to the burner holes.
> This changes the moment a pot is placed above the burner.
> When a pot is placed above the burner, the flow of secondary air slows down
> substantially,
> and the flamelets appear right above the burner holes.
> I have discovered that the flow of secondary air can be regulated in part
> by
> the height of the pot above the burner.
> It appears that the flow of secondary air becomes one with the flow of gas
> as it combusts and hits the pot above.
> I know that the pot should be as close as possible to the burner,
> but at the same time one has to take into account how the height of the pot
> influences secondary air flow.
>
> We will do everything we can to help you lower your costs in fabricating
> gasifiers.
> Also we will provide drawings on how to construct stove tops.
> The stove top is what determines the height of the pot above the burner.
> A well-designed stove top is key to public acceptance.
> Stove tops might vary in cost from just a few dollars to several hundred
> dollars.
> I see a day coming soon when gasifiers and stove tops are incorporated into
> modern kitchens.
>
> For more on what we are doing in Vietnam, please see:
> http://esrla.com/pdf/landfill_06.pdf
>
> Many thanks.
> Paul
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear Norman and all,
> >
> > We will gladly assist you.
> >
> > Prof. Belonio is not doing much these days on the small gasifiers for
> > cooking.  But his work is being advanced very nicely by Dr. Paul Olivier
> who
> > lives and works in Vietnam.  I expect that he will respond to your
> initial
> > message also.
> >
> > I deal with these TLUD gasifier issues around the world, and I assure you
> > that many people are awaiting the release of the rice husk stoves from
> > Vietnam.  At that time I will assist Dr. Olivier with dissemination,
> > including into Central and South America.
> >
> > I and several others on this listserv speak and read Spanish (and some
> can
> > write it well).   We will assist you directly.  I am also in contact with
> > several Stovers in Central America, including those at Zamorano Univ in
> > Honduras and Gustavo Penha of El Salvador.  I was at both places in late
> > September.
> >
> > We are delighted to be in contact with you.
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> > Known to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc    Professor
> > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> > www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf<
> http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf>  (Best
> ref.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Norman Rene Sandoval Siles <nrene.sandoval at gmail.com>:
> >
> >  Hello
> >>
> >>
> >> I interested in the model of the stoves "Rice Husk Super Turbo Quasi
> >> Gasifier Stove" from the Msc.Alexis  Belonio  .
> >>
> >> Im wrote of the City of Tipitapa, Managua, Nicaragua , I am a
>  Electrical
> >> Engineer i wishes and follow very nearly the Tecnologies based of the
> Rice
> >> Husk.I live with some parents in a Comunity called" San Francisco Libre"
> >> located at 45 kms of the City of Tipitapa, Managua.In my place  the rice
> >> plantation are very extensive , and my Comunity are be  there so long of
> >> the
> >> principal poblationals and principal centers .Im San Francisco Libre my
> >> comunity live very people poor and the vocational and Professional level
> >> is low, As the economical level also very low .Many people its very
> poor.
> >>
> >>
> >> Please anithing send some information (Diagram of Construction etc)about
> >> how
> >> build one stove or the diferent models as example ,Super turbo Rice Husk
> >> etc.
> >> I"ll like this technologies specific what i see is simple , easy and
> cheap
> >> for constructions ,and very clean for the enviroment.
> >>
> >>  If You insterested send this information , please write me at this
> >> electronic mail.
> >>
> >> I am greetings for this information.
> >>
> >> Atentively
> >>
> >> Eng.Norman Sandoval Siles.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  <http://www.greatcomical.com/**wp/ie.php?plg=ie&subs=gmail&**elm=sign<
> http://www.greatcomical.com/wp/ie.php?plg=ie&subs=gmail&elm=sign>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
> > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:58:23 +0200
> From: "Frans Peeters" <peetersfrans at telenet.be>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] POTASIUM basics
> Message-ID: <000601cc8cc4$12384ce0$9101a8c0 at RosettePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
>   Black soot wil be  tar from a dense hydrocarbon pek like sapin trees
> ,containing 13% .polyphenols till > 7  kekul rings .
>
> KOH   and       K2CO3 under 400? C will act as fire extingwisher !
>
> Mixing with rice huls make the % disturbers are lower .
>
> K2SiO3 is water soluble! Good for plants like bamboo what needs 5% Si
> fertliser ;
>
> K is needed for large fruits like big patatous !
>
> Steamcoocking gives 13% loss of K .      Water coocking much more .!
>
> We need 2500 milli gram K / day in our food .
>
> Mind
>
> K transport is partly a slepping particles transport by CO2 gas flow..
>
> KOH can move and condense 10 cm higer in a reactor .or chimney .
> Polyphenols
> 5m high .
>
> Stainless steel Nickel oxydes dissolve by KOH in yellow salts .
>
> Purple flame is K , if not over yellow from Na .
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Frans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Frans,
>
> You say that
>
> K transport is not called gasform but migration as airosol particles .smog
> alike.
>
>
> Does this explain the presence of black soot in the syngas?
> The black soot disappears when coffee husks are gasified along with rice
> hulls.
> In the reactor, does K in the coffee husk react with silica in the rice
> hull
> to form potassium silicate?
> Does this explain the disappearance of the soot?
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Frans Peeters <peetersfrans at telenet.be>
> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
>   You start thinking of an analysis figure in feriliser ! Expressed in an
> old way : K2O. Not the real state !!
>
> Potasium in general : ash 10-20 % but comming from 5% ash in the biofuel
> .You end up with 10%from 5% =0,5 % from the fuel ,as exemple .
>
> Fe2O3 stays Fe2O3 but K2Obecomes fast KOH with H2O from  the air!
> Hygroscopic at room temperature ..
>
> K into fuel wil go over KOH to K2CO3 or stronger  SO4?PO4--- Cl- F -SiO3 ?
> salts if  those radicals are present ..
>
> K transport is not called gasform but migration as airosol particles .
>
> smog alike. Not K2O but KOH or KOH.xH2O under 400? C
>
> Now you got the better info for 400-800? C    (My fusion =400 ? C )
>
> But mind the KOH at your 170? C  is a flame extigwisher .. Fe2O3 is not ?.
>
> KOH in the flame explodes and gives your horizontal flame splitting .
>
> Suggestion :aspiration of the CO2 off gas in a fumehood  ( by 800? C ) plus
> water nebulation afterwards wil recuperate the  valuable potasium.and
> protect your lungs and nose .
>
>
>
> Frans
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:33:53 -0400
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove
>        for     the PLACE
> Message-ID: <037301cc8ce2$2e96bcf0$8bc436d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Roger
>
>
>
> You can look but you can't touch!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> ++++++
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm
>
>  Maybe I should save myself some time and be looking under people's
> mattresses........lol.
>
>  _____
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:34:17 -0700
> From: Fireside Hearth <firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com>
> To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove
>        for the PLACE
> Message-ID: <BLU125-W22C776AE20FF547F2953C9C3E40 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> Dear Crispin.......
>
>  Touche !      If I am to bother being that dishonest.......might as well
> finish the job, eh?
>
>             So I have a good question for you, when the temperature drops I
> get a loss of draft, I think more so with the 3" diameter flue. It caused me
> great pains last night when my "sweet little stove" became a smoke bomb. Any
> hints on overcoming this issue?
>
>          Roger
>
> From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:33:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for
>      the PLACE
>
>
>
> Dear Roger You can look but you can?t touch! RegardsCrispin  ++++++ Hmmmmm
>
>  Maybe I should save myself some time and be looking under people's
> mattresses........lol.
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:35:01 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] why does coffee husk biochar smell like urine?
> Message-ID: <011001cc8cfb$7b6f6680$724e3380$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
> The structure and composition of rice husk ash make rice husks a unique
> fuel
> and so they should not be compared to straws. We did a fair amount of work
> with rice husk combustion after our work with alkali deposits. That work is
> proprietary to our client. We included phase diagrams in our alkali study
> that show the effect of K:Si composition and temperature on liquidus
> states.
> http://www.trmiles.com/alkali/Alkali_Report.pdf In practice unground rice
> husks are a very stable fuel for gasification. You need to burn out the
> carbon and get to some pretty high temperatures to have problems. Even if
> you have an excess of K relative to Si, which would be the case in adding
> coffee husks, you dot; have the slagging problems you would have with rice
> straw.
>
>
>
> While at the Asian Pacific Biochar Conference last month in Japan we
> visited
> the  <http://www.kippo.or.jp/e/nature/environment/Picture/252012_e.pdf>
> Aito
> Eco-plaza "Nanohana Kan". They use an updraft, stirred bed, gasifier
> supplied by Kansai Corporation to convert rice husks to biochar (Kuntan)
> and
> heat. They feed 150 kg/hr husk at 2000 kcal/kg and get 50 kg/hr char. It is
> a stirred bed gasifier. They say that husks gasify in the bed at about
> 600C.
> Air is added above the bed to burn the gases. Stack gas is 15% O2 so they
> use lots of excess air. About 30% of the heat input is recovered as hot
> water which is used in the bio oil process and in winter for heating.
>
>
>
> They pack the product in clear 10 kg bags. I was interested in the labeling
> of the bags. They indicate 40% carbon and 50% silica.
>
> Their label indicates that in 1 kg biochar they have
>
>   K   11000mg
>
>   Ca   5700
>
>   Na   1700
>
>   Mn    790
>
>  Fe    190
>
>   Zn   110
>
> Cu     a very small quantity
>
>
>
> They provide separate instructions for use in gardens, horticultural crops,
> row cropland tees.
>
>
>
> The numbers of units and actual use are still not clear. I heard that
> Kansai
> Corp had installed 200 of these and made char from about 10% of their husk
> production of 100,000 tpy.
>
>
>
> I would expect the traditional farm scale kuntan pyrolysis to be at a
> similar low temperature. We were told that Kuntan is used in growing rice
> plant seedlings because it is good for root development.
>
>
>
> Steve M Haefele et. al. (IRRI) have published research on rice husk char.
> Carbon and potassium contents of the char are similar to the Aito label
> above. K concentrations in the char is 2 x the untreated char. C and N are
> in similar concentrations in the char as in the untreated husk. One furnace
> was developed at IRRI in conjunction with Nong Lam University in Vietnam.
>
> All of this research is relevant to the use of char from carbonizing
> stoves.
>
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> Haefele, S. M., Y. Konboon, et al. (2011). "Effects and fate of biochar
> from
> rice residues in rice-based systems." Field Crops Research 121(3): 430-440.
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378429011000402
>
>
>
>                Although crop residues constitute an enormous resource,
> actual residue management practices in rice-based systems have various
> negative side effects and contribute to global warming. The concept of a
> combined bioenergy/biochar system could tackle these problems in a new way.
> Rice residues would be used for energy production, thereby reducing field
> burning and the use of fossil fuels, and the biochar by-product could help
> to improve soils, avoid methane emissions, and sequester carbon in soils.
> To
> examine some of these promises, we conducted field experiments from 2005 to
> 2008 in three different rice production systems. Objectives were to study
> the effect of biochar from rice husks on soil characteristics, assess the
> stability of carbonized rice residues in these different systems, and
> evaluate the agronomic effect of biochar applications. The results showed
> that application of untreated and carbonized rice husks (RH and CRH)
> increased total organic carbon, total soil N, the C/N ratio, and available
> P
> and K. Not significant or small effects were observed for soil reaction,
> exchangeable Ca, Mg, Na, and the CEC. On a fertile soil, the high C/N ratio
> of CRH seemed to have limited N availability, thereby slightly reducing
> grain yields in the first three seasons after application. On a poor soil,
> where the crop also suffered from water stress, soil chemical and physical
> improvements increased yields by 16-35%. Together with a parallel study
> including methane and CO2 emission measurements at one site, the results
> strongly suggest that CRH is very stable in various rice soils and systems,
> possibly for thousands of years. However, the study also showed that CRH
> was
> very mobile in some soils. Especially in poor sandy soil, about half of the
> applied carbon seemed to have moved below 0.30&#xa0;m in the soil profile
> within 4 years after application. We concluded that biochar from rice
> residues can be beneficial in rice-based systems but that actual effects on
> soil fertility, grain yield, and soil organic carbon will depend on
> site-specific conditions. Long-term studies on biochar in field trials seem
> essential to better understand biochar effects and to investigate its
> behavior in soils.
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:51:30 +0100
> From: Steve Taylor <steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove
>        for     the PLACE
> Message-ID:
>        <CAGW2POhWiRU2zEpJr41nkYCkWTaFpHHjhL8MWJsJQBbhePnarQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 17 October 2011 19:34, Fireside Hearth
> <firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> >  Dear Crispin.......
> >
> >  Touche !      If I am to bother being that dishonest.......might as well
> > finish the job, eh?
> >
> >              So I have a good question for you, when the temperature
> drops
> > I get a loss of draft, I think more so with the 3" diameter flue. It
> caused
> > me great pains last night when my "sweet little stove" became a smoke
> bomb.
> > Any hints on overcoming this issue?
> >
> >
> Add a low power electric blower ?
>
> Steve
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> ------------------------------
>
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>
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 14, Issue 31
> **************************************
>
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