[Stoves] "stove-acceptance" of char-making [TLUD] stoves.

Tue Dec 4 10:00:09 CST 2012

Hi Josh, Paul, stoves list, etal 

I am planning to go to the Cambodia meeting. I will submit an abstract sure to be supportive of biochar. It will emphasize status of char as "co-product" - not "by-product" - and be built around the "C/CO2" measurements of all stoves - that I introduced here last week. 

Ron 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kearns" <yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com> 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:01:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] "stove-acceptance" of char-making [TLUD] stoves. 

If there is to be a "biochar as a by-product and its application(s)" sub-topic at the conference then of course I will put in a plug for "use in household water treatment." 

I wish that I could be there but I won't make it back to SE Asia this winter (will be there winter 2013/14). If there is sufficient interest in a biochar applications session and water treatment/water quality concerns, I could ask a colleague in Chiang Mai, Thailand to attend and present some of our work. 

Josh 

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Paul Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu > wrote: 

Dear Leslie and all Stovers, especially those with interest in char-making stoves, 

(also being sent one time to the Biochar Listserv (yahoogroups) for their comments also.) 

Leslie raises a valid question: 

Should the various issues about "making of char in cookstoves" be a topic at the GACC Forum? 

For THAT I can fully agree with. One or two presentations, or maybe an open session. That aspect of the session/presentation would be a natural fit with discussions of TLUD gasifiers and any other devices that can intentionally produce char. 

And when that char will be burned in improved charcoal stoves, it becomes doubly interesting for the stoves conference. 

Mention can certainly be made that the produced char could also be used as "biochar" (char destined put into soils). 

Here I raise the questions: 
Which of the biochar (BIOchar) aspects can or should be presented at the Stoves Forum? 

To what extent should they be emphasized? 

And who will be in attendance at the Forum for such discussions? 

__I__ intend to be at the Forum and will be speaking (if selected to be a presenter) about TLUD stoves that "make charcoal that can be burned or used as biochar". My current thinking is that I will request to present about the latest developments of the TChar variation of TLUD stoves, and in those stoves the charcoal is consumed by burning. I will mention the biochar prospects and can answer questions that could arise about biochar, but there will not be more than a minute of two for BIOchar comments. 

Please speak up about "biochar as a topic at a stove Forum". And do say if you plan to be there in mid March. 

Paul 

Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.com 

On 12/3/2012 11:33 AM, Leslie Cordes wrote: 

<blockquote>

Colleagues – the abstract submission process is currently open for the Alliance Clean Cooking Forum in Cambodia. We have not finalized the agenda by any means so please feel free to submit an application on that the biochar subject where it will be considered with the other submissions. We will also have open sessions each morning from 7-9 am for groups to meet on whatever subject they choose as well as many informal opportunities to share information on topics like biochar and so I invite you to join us. 

Regards, 

Leslie 

p.s. the travel scholarship application process is also open right now. Please note you must be a member of the Alliance to apply. 

From: Stoves [ mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org ] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:07 AM 
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
Cc: biochar at yahoogroups.com ; Emmanuel Bukenya; Hugh McLaughlin; Bob Fairchild 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] "stove-acceptance" of char-making [TLUD] stoves. 

Stephen, 

Excellent. Please note: There is a major GACC stove meeting in Cambodia in March 2013. Not much there about biochar, so it is unlikely that you will attend. But I will be there and I (and others) would like to have your data / results about acceptance of "stoves that make biochar" (probably aka TLUDs ). Please make every effort to make the results available in time. 

If you need a person for discussions without using list serves (such as for commenting on drafts on a confidential basis), I volunteer or could help you find others. 

Paul 

Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD" Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.com 

On 12/3/2012 4:45 AM, Stephen Joseph wrote: 
<blockquote>

Hi Guys 

Very positive acceptance of the PED biochar stove in Northern Vietnam. Initial results to be published next year and a short article soon when I manage to get time to write it. 

Regards 

Stephen Joseph 

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Paul Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu > wrote: 

Dear Stovers, 

On 11/30/2012 2:06 PM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote: 
<blockquote>

[RWL4b': <snip> I just finished reading the thesis by Robert Pendleton Taylor recommended by Jim Jetter yesterday. He has 6-7 different ways to subdivide the stoves universe and none are by char character.. 
However, the issue of how to handle char permeates that thesis - and I think appropriately. The char issue raised by Dr. Taylor revolves around "batch" stoves - which is a pretty close match to your "climate change" stoves. I need to emphasize that primary emphasis has to be on the "cooking/heating" (not on the char) - or no one will use a char-making stove. I think char-making stoves win the stove-acceptance battle hands-down - but there is almost no data to prove that. 

I agree with Ron on several points: 
1. Almost no data. 
2. TLUD stoves have acceptance by users. 
3. That Ron and I are biased [but correct!!] in our favorable opinions about char-making stoves. But we also have some of the longest times working with them. Ron started in the 1990s and me in 2001, both with Tom Reed. 

The lack of data on stove acceptance of TLUD stoves is largely because of so little offer of them to users. And almost never have they been offered side by side with other types of stoves. 

Four exceptions: 
A. The Oorja TLUD-FA (fan assisted) did 400,000 units in India with BP funding. And that stove (with some style updates, etc) is still on the market by First Energy. Clearly somebody liked it enough to use it. However, the Oorja is not designed to make char. So set that case aside. 
B. Philips is getting into the gasifier stove scene. Unlikely that they are doing it without some data on acceptance by users. But no data from them. 
C. Some models of World Stoves by Nat Mulcahy make char, but again data on acceptance is not released. 

[All three cases above are by for-profit businesses.] 

D. The recently complete (Sept 2012, with Final Report still in Draft form) Mwoto TLUD-ND (natural draft) by the World Bank BEIA project in Uganda found that acceptance of that TLUD exceeded the ability of the tinsmiths to produce units. That shows some very favorable acceptance. As a result of that project, at least three private companies have been created (Mwoto Factories, Awamu Biomass Energy, and Pamoja - Uganda) and some independent tinsmiths are continuing to make TLUD-ND gasifier stoves in Uganda. These are start-up operations with minimal funding, but they are progressing and certainly have a positive attitude about user acceptance. 

In summary, Ron's statement of his belief that : 

char-making stoves win the stove-acceptance battle hands-down 

remains to be proven or dis-proven. 

Paul 

Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD" Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.com 

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</blockquote>

-- 
Josh Kearns 
PhD Candidate 
Environmental Engineering 
Engineering for Developing Communities 
University of Colorado-Boulder 

Director of Science 
Aqueous Solutions 
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