[Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !

Mon Dec 17 13:31:24 CST 2012

Thanks A.D. for explaining this. 
This is the first time I have read it explained in this way and provides
something to think about. 

Regards

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Anand Karve
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:08 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !

Dear Tom.
the minerals in the soil have very low solubility. If soil is stirred in
water, most minerals would dissolve in water, but they show concentration of
only 2 to 15 ppm. Plants are inefficient in absorbing minerals from such a
dilute solution, but the microbes are much more efficient. The concentration
of these solutions is in dynamic equilibrium, so that the molecules absorbed
by the microbes are immediately replaced by molecules from the pool of the
undissolved minerals going into solution. Thus there is an unlimited supply
of minerals in the soil. When one appliess high calorie organic matter to
the soil, the microbes proliferate by feeding on this carbon source.
In that process they absorb from the soil solution all the minerals that
they need. There exists in the soil a food chain, whereby the amoebae eat
the bacteria, the annelids eat the amoebae, and the insects eat the
annelids. There are also fungi in this food chain. At each step, there is a
reduction in the carbon content, which is released into the atmosphere in
the form of CO2, and a corresponding amount of minerals are also released
into the soil. These minerals, now in the form of organic compounds, are
water soluble and they are taken up by plants. This would show you, that one
has only to induce the microbes in the soil to proliferate in order to make
the minerals available to plants. It would support all kinds of micro and
macroflora, irrespective of the category of microbes that get multiplied. It
took me several years of meditation before I could solve this riddle.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> AD
>
> When the crops are fed a high caloric organic matter does that limit 
> the crops to only those that are suited to those organisms? Or does 
> organic farming change the soil biology to accommodate a wider range of
crops?
>
> Biochar has been used as a carrier to improve or restore the 
> populations of suitable organisms that have been reduced by chemical 
> applications. Minerals like rock dust are sometime included in the mix.
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On 
> Behalf Of Anand Karve
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:36 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !
>
> Dear Frans,
> The nature of the micro-organisms living in any given soil depends on 
> the nature of the soil. If you applied sugar to a soil and incubated 
> it, you would find only such organisms multiply, that can survive in 
> that particular soil. Thus, if the soil is phosphate deficient, only 
> phosphate solubilizing bacteria would survive in it. If the soil were 
> nitrogen deficient, only nitrogen-fixing bacteria would survive in it.
> In the case of the vertisol soils in our region, the soil pH is above 
> 8.5. In this soil, the iron is in a trivalent form, which is not 
> available to the plants. Therefore, farmers are asked to apply iron 
> sulphate to their fields. But if you applied sugar to this soil, the 
> microbes that would be multiplied are those able to take up the 
> trivalent iron from the soil and convert it into divalent iron. Survey 
> of farmers who practice organic farming showed me, that the crops in 
> such farms never show any symptoms of mineral deficiency. I thus 
> realized that the mineral deficiencies in the soil are corrected by 
> the soil micro-organisms. Asking farmers to apply special kinds of 
> bacterial cultures to their soils for correcting the mineral 
> deficiencies amounts to cheating the farmers. The necessary microbes 
> are already in the soil. All one has to do is to feed them with a high 
> calorie organic material, so that they multiply their numbers.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alex English <english at kingston.net>
wrote:
>> Andrew,
>> Perhaps you have seen  solubility charts?
>>
>> http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm
>> It is slightly different for soiless media.
>> Very much a chemist's take on soil fertility.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 15/12/2012 5:20 PM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Frans, good to see your contribution.
>>>
>>>   On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:22:03 +0100,"Frans Peeters"
>>> <peetersfrans at telenet.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>>         Basic soil needs humus to bring pH 8,5 to 6,5
>>>
>>> This is because humus (humic acid?) is acidic but so will low 
>>> temperature char that  still contains pyroligneous chemicals??
>>>>
>>>> Basic soil by Ca exess has lack of Mg take up to form Chlorofil 
>>>> leef green .Result yellow leaves .
>>>
>>> Ye Ca inhibits take up of magnesium, we have it once roots reach the 
>>> chalk on thin soils here, it's known as lime induced chlorosis.
>>>>
>>>> Char has no chemical effect .
>>>
>>> The carbon in char is inert but presumably its the ash associated 
>>> with the carbon matrix that makes high temperature char basic.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes water and minerals into the char are usefull at pH 5,5 -7.
>>>
>>> Could you expand on that?
>>>>
>>>> Basic soil makes trace minerals unsoluble and not avaiable to take up .
>>>>
>>>> Zn and Se can profit of basic soil .
>>>>
>>>> Too acid under pH 5 dissoves Aluminium from clay ,a plant killer .
>>>>
>>> I take from that that if the soil becomes too acid the aluminium 
>>> becomes labile and available, hence it kills the plants.
>>>
>>> So similarly if the soil is too basic it makes zinc and selenium 
>>> unavailable?
>>>
>>> AJH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Frans
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists
> .org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute 
> (ARTI)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists
> .org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>

--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/