[Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !

Sun Dec 16 19:11:03 CST 2012

Anand,

I really like the way you explain what happens in the soil.

Paul

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Tom.
> the minerals in the soil have very low solubility. If soil is stirred
> in water, most minerals would dissolve in water, but they show
> concentration of only 2 to 15 ppm. Plants are inefficient in absorbing
> minerals from such a dilute solution, but the microbes are much more
> efficient. The concentration of these solutions is in dynamic
> equilibrium, so that the molecules absorbed by the microbes are
> immediately replaced by molecules from the pool of the undissolved
> minerals going into solution. Thus there is an unlimited supply of
> minerals in the soil. When one appliess high calorie organic matter to
> the soil, the microbes proliferate by feeding on this carbon source.
> In that process they absorb from the soil solution all the minerals
> that they need. There exists in the soil a food chain, whereby the
> amoebae eat the bacteria, the annelids eat the amoebae, and the
> insects eat the annelids. There are also fungi in this food chain. At
> each step, there is a reduction in the carbon content, which is
> released into the atmosphere in the form of CO2, and a corresponding
> amount of minerals are also released into the soil. These minerals,
> now in the form of organic compounds, are water soluble and they are
> taken up by plants. This would show you, that one has only to induce
> the microbes in the soil to proliferate in order to make the minerals
> available to plants. It would support all kinds of micro and
> macroflora, irrespective of the category of microbes that get
> multiplied. It took me several years of meditation before I could
> solve this riddle.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> > AD
> >
> > When the crops are fed a high caloric organic matter does that limit the
> > crops to only those that are suited to those organisms? Or does organic
> > farming change the soil biology to accommodate a wider range of crops?
> >
> > Biochar has been used as a carrier to improve or restore the populations
> of
> > suitable organisms that have been reduced by chemical applications.
> Minerals
> > like rock dust are sometime included in the mix.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Anand Karve
> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:36 AM
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !
> >
> > Dear Frans,
> > The nature of the micro-organisms living in any given soil depends on
> > the nature of the soil. If you applied sugar to a soil and incubated
> > it, you would find only such organisms multiply, that can survive in
> > that particular soil. Thus, if the soil is phosphate deficient, only
> > phosphate solubilizing bacteria would survive in it. If the soil were
> > nitrogen deficient, only nitrogen-fixing bacteria would survive in it.
> > In the case of the vertisol soils in our region, the soil pH is above
> > 8.5. In this soil, the iron is in a trivalent form, which is not
> > available to the plants. Therefore, farmers are asked to apply iron
> > sulphate to their fields. But if you applied sugar to this soil, the
> > microbes that would be multiplied are those able to take up the
> > trivalent iron from the soil and convert it into divalent iron. Survey
> > of farmers who practice organic farming showed me, that the crops in
> > such farms never show any symptoms of mineral deficiency. I thus
> > realized that the mineral deficiencies in the soil are corrected by
> > the soil micro-organisms. Asking farmers to apply special kinds of
> > bacterial cultures to their soils for correcting the mineral
> > deficiencies amounts to cheating the farmers. The necessary microbes
> > are already in the soil. All one has to do is to feed them with a high
> > calorie organic material, so that they multiply their numbers.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alex English <english at kingston.net>
> wrote:
> >> Andrew,
> >> Perhaps you have seen  solubility charts?
> >>
> >> http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm
> >> It is slightly different for soiless media.
> >> Very much a chemist's take on soil fertility.
> >>
> >> Alex
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15/12/2012 5:20 PM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Frans, good to see your contribution.
> >>>
> >>>   On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:22:03 +0100,"Frans Peeters"
> >>> <peetersfrans at telenet.be> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>         Basic soil needs humus to bring pH 8,5 to 6,5
> >>>
> >>> This is because humus (humic acid?) is acidic but so will low
> >>> temperature char that  still contains pyroligneous chemicals??
> >>>>
> >>>> Basic soil by Ca exess has lack of Mg take up to form Chlorofil leef
> >>>> green
> >>>> .Result yellow leaves .
> >>>
> >>> Ye Ca inhibits take up of magnesium, we have it once roots reach the
> >>> chalk on thin soils here, it's known as lime induced chlorosis.
> >>>>
> >>>> Char has no chemical effect .
> >>>
> >>> The carbon in char is inert but presumably its the ash associated with
> >>> the carbon matrix that makes high temperature char basic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sometimes water and minerals into the char are usefull at pH 5,5 -7.
> >>>
> >>> Could you expand on that?
> >>>>
> >>>> Basic soil makes trace minerals unsoluble and not avaiable to take up
> .
> >>>>
> >>>> Zn and Se can profit of basic soil .
> >>>>
> >>>> Too acid under pH 5 dissoves Aluminium from clay ,a plant killer .
> >>>>
> >>> I take from that that if the soil becomes too acid the aluminium
> >>> becomes labile and available, hence it kills the plants.
> >>>
> >>> So similarly if the soil is too basic it makes zinc and selenium
> >>> unavailable?
> >>>
> >>> AJH
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Frans
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> >
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>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
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