[Stoves] Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

Sun Jan 1 12:56:58 CST 2012

Dear Jim

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jim karnofski 
  To: Richard Hard ; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
  Cc: biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com ; biochar-production at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:59 PM
  Subject: RE: Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

  Dear All,

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  From: karnask at hotmail.com
  To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
  Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:54:53 +0000

  I see Kevin as a thoughtful and skeptical, but not well-read 

  # I have been reading about Terra Preta and Biochar for the past 6 to 8 years. Perhaps I have not been reading the right material?

  and Kevin seems to see agriculture as a science with certainty as if it always has black and white answers.

  # No. We do not need such "black or white" answers... some good general and rational guidelines would suffice.

   The more you know about soils, the more respect for uncertainty you have as the chemical nature of soil is infinite. 

  # Agreed. However, we must be able to quantify the areas where biochar could most likely be of benefit, and the areas where it would least likely to be of benefit. At least, we would then be able to do test work that had a higher likelihood of success.

  As far as farm economics, time and testing will tell, but I am certain the answer will be more pragmatic than some farmers can stand. For instance, a recommendation might be, add biochar as you can afford, building up to 1% in your lifetime and leave the next increment to the next farmer over the next generation. The efficiency and effectiveness of the soil is improved with the added carbon. And Carbon, by definition, is organic. Carbon compounds need not be edible to be considered organic.

  # I would respectfully suggest that while biomass matter is organic, biochar is organic matter that has been mineralized. It does nor function in soil the same way that true organic matter does.  

  I encourage Kevin to carefully read the scientific table-top research studies from Australia, http://adl.brs.gov.au/data/warehouse/biochar9abcm001/biochar9abcm00101/TR.2011.06_Biochar_v1.0.0.pdf

  .
  # This 63 page report seems to be balanced and sensible. I would draw attention to a quote from the summary:   
  "Current knowledge about the effects of adding biochar to Australian agricultural soils is not sufficient to support recommending its use."

   # This would seem to support my inquiry for more guidelines on where to consider using biochar, and where to avoid using it.  All I am asking is for more knowledge and guidelines to support recommending its use. 

   and  the US, http://www.biochar-us.org/pdf%20files/biochar_report_lowres.pdf,  for a reasonable up-to-date summary of the best known scientific evidence of why it was used by the ancients for MILLENNIA. 

  # Pages 3 to 5 of this 84 page report give good insight into where biochar could be a benefit to Agriculture. The bulk of this report extols biochar's energy and climate change advantages. However, there is nothing specific that would enable a Farmer to make a rational decision on whether or not to bother with a biochar test.

  I am pragmatic enough to hedge on my own to incrementally add biochar as I can.

  # What were the reasons that led you to use biochar? Which of biochar's features do you feel are of benefit to you? Do you feel that you are getting a good financial return on your investment in biochar additions? If so, what would you estimate the simple Return on Investment to be?  

  As far as having a clear answer with diagnosis and intervention with organic soils, intervention is going to be harder to achieve as the infinite nature of an organic soil does not lend itself to the very simple Chemistry 101 of the past Leibig-like "soil science". The present and future complex soil science will consider the soil as an in finite mixture of compounds and generally unknown bacteria, fungi, plasmids, prions, and elemental compounds, with unmeasurable symbiotic interactions, requiring meta-genetics, to get a glimpse as to what might be happening in any given micro environment. Good luck with funding basic organic soil science as the money is not there. It is the Agro-chemical-industrial complex that sets the priorities with funding and that is not compatable with organic enhancing measures like biochar. It may have to be up to us as Citizen Scientists to get the job done during this stage of our societies growth and development.

  # OK.... given the complex nature of organic soils, and the probable difficulty of evaluating results in a meaningful and transferable manner, would it be best to avoid biochar application on organic soils, and focus biochar testing on soils with a lower organic content? Concerning your suggestion that "Big Ag" is choking off funding for biochar research, perhaps effort should be focused on finding ways to make "Organic Fertilisers" incorporating biochar, as suggested by Anil Rajvanshi?

  We should all get used to painting with a broad brush, still using the Chem 101, but using a broad brush to address problems. The ancients threw everything back into the soil, feeding it like the soil is an omnivore, cultivating like it needed to respirate and respecting it like their life depended upon it. 

  # There is a huge message here. Terra Preta is said to have worked wonderfully, and to have been extremely fertile. You seem to have described "Organic Gardening with a Charcoal Addition." :-) 

  The soil has been treated lik e dirt for too long, just a petri-dish medium with N-P-K needs, etc. One needs to treat it like the living ecosystem that it is. Biochar has been proven to be effective and not harmful in any soil for advancing the quantity and the diversity of life. So, in my organic soil it is part of my compost regimen because it works well for me as it seemed to have work well for others for thousands of years.

  # I would suggest that the attitude  "...treating soil like dirt..." outlook took hold with the advent of industrially produced fertilizers, and the reduced attention to the importance of soil organic matter.

  We need the naysayers, but they need to read and practice, too. 

  # Well, if a Farmer that was interested in the potential use of biochar on his farm read the above two Reports, he would probably be left with the messages:
  1: Australian Report: There are many unknowns, and biochar is unlikely to be economically advantageous.
  2: American Report: Since only 3 out of 84 pages in this report suggest a potential for agricultural benefit from using biochar, it is probably not not worth considering it further at this time.

  # These reports are no way to sell a Farmer on using biochar!! :-) Would you know of ANY URL's that would give a Farmer a rational and economic basis for justifying a biochar test? Otherwise, the Farmers are sure to be naysayers.

  Thanks!

  Kevin

  Jim

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  To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
  CC: biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com; biochar-production at yahoogroups.com; biochar at yahoogroups.com
  From: kchisholm at ca.inter.net
  Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:52:15 -0400
  Subject: Biochar as an Agricultural Tool Was: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

  Dear All

  Biochar is not a panacea, contrary to what its enthusiastic supporters infer. It works, and is beneficial in some circumstances, and it fails to be beneficial in others. Charcoal that is used in Agriculture as a soil amendment is called "Biochar", yet it has taken on a life of its own, as a "Climate Improvement Tool". The "Climate Improvement People" seem to assume that biochar is beneficial to agriculture, and don't seem to have much interest in whether or not biochar is an economically sound investment as an "agricultural additive."

  What would be vital to know are the circumstances where it is sensible to consider the use of biochar to improve agricultural productivity. Agricultural Science can analyze a soil and say, for example: "This soil needs 1.0 tons of N  and 3.5 tons of Ca per acre to turn it into a good garden soil." As far as I know, there is no way to make a sound and rational recommendation on how much biochar to add per acre. It is totally irresponsible, in my opinion, to recommend a general addition of (say) 10 tonnes per hectare; some soils may attain optimal benefit with 1 tonne/Ha, while other soils may require 20 tonnes per Ha

  Some people say that "Biochar improves moisture retention characteristics of soil."  Just how much moisture can biochar retain? Are there better ways to retain moisture in the soil? For example, a kG of peat can retain about 7 kG of water. Biochar is notoriously difficult to wet, and it is thus difficult to get it to absorb or retain moisture. Perhaps the best way to retain moisture is to simply add the organic matter,  from which biochar could be made, directly to the soil? 

  We are told that "Biochar is better than organic matter because it lasts 1,000+ years in the soil." Sure! Because it does not provide feed for soil organisms! A key concept in Organic Agriculture is "Feed the soil, and the plants can look after themselves.". Biochar does not "feed the soil."

  We are told that "Biochar is a haven for soil microbes." Well, in many cases, any microbes that can enter the char pores would be smothered by the microbes that would cover the outer surface of the individual charcoal grain. 

  We are shown really nice photos of how roots head for charcoal lumps, and are told "See how charcoal promotes plant development!" The reality may be that the charcoal robs the nutrients from adjacent soil and concentrates it within the charcoal. The kid looking for candy goes into the candy store, rather than looking on the pavement outside it. 

  We are also told that "Biochar is organic matter." If it can't feed soil microbes, it is not organic matter.

  The only thing I know for sure about biochar is that it can sequester carbon. Does anyone know specifically how and why biochar is beneficial to agriculture? Does anyone know the "soil circumstances" when and how to apply biochar to a soil to improve upon or eliminate a specific soil deficiency? 

  A Farmer can take a soil sample, have it analysed, and competent Soil Scientists can tell him exactly what he should add to the soil to improve it. Are there ANY "soil circumstances" where a biochar addition would be the best additive to cure a soil deficiency?

  If so, what are they?

  Now, biochar may be effective in curing a particular condition, but there may be more economic alternatives for accomplishing the same end result. Naturally, the sensible Farmer will want to employ them rather than biochar, because he saves money.

  The bottom line question seems to be: Are there any circumstances where biochar additions are the best tool for the Farmer to use to improve productivity and reduce costs?

  If there are, then I would suggest that they should be clearly identified, as a way to expand the use of biochar, and to benefit the Farmer.

  Best wishes,

  Kevin Chisholm

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Alex English 
    To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
    Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:35 AM
    Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

    Dear Anand,
    It is well documented how new drugs are often compared in trials to treatments that are not the best current treatment. Thus the not so surprising favorable results. 

    Physicist Richard Feynman would ask to see the data, so he could draw his own conclusions, which could differ from the primary author. 
    "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts" 

    What then is 'peer review'?

    So much of what we read about biochar sounds like a woefully inadequate recipe for curry. Ju st add spices.  Without differentiating char characteristics and the conditions of treatment soils, all we can conclude is further research is required, or go back and do it right. If you multiply those variables you can put a high quantity on 'expert ignorance'. Add a pinch of time span,and biology, then good and bad results become curiosities. Terra Preta  may be a fine wine now but what was it back then. 

    Unburned Char can have value right now. Potting mix, sorption of nasties, crayons, even as insulation under hydronic heating lines. Physics and chemistry are quick. Biology is a chronic research pain that delights and confounds. 

    Repeatedly we see reference to biochar being beneficial to 'highly weathered" tropical soils. Would you characterize any of the soils you added charcoal to as being "highly weathered"?  

    Regards,
    Alex

    On 31/12/2011 12:14 AM, Anand Karve wrote: 
      Dear Kevin, Crispin and Ron,
      I have been conducting experiments, off and on, for almost a decade on effect of charcoal applied to the soil. Most of the work consisted of very preliminary experiments, just to find out if application of charcoal gave positive results. I would have started a systematic study, if the preliminary results had indicated that this was a useful technology. I never got beyond the stage of preliminary experiments, because they did not reveal to me any beneficial effects on crop yield. I never reported the results in any formal publication, because the experiments were of a very preliminary nature, not conducted in statistically approved designs. Secondly, I want to say that It is generally the tendency among scientists to cite references that support one's findings. So picking and choosing of evidence that supports one's point of view is quite common in scientific publications.
      Yours
      A.D.Karve 

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