[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10
Fireside Hearth
firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com
Thu Jun 14 13:33:05 CDT 2012
Good topic, in the case of the Kimberly (which has a tiny ash pan) our ash often liquifies at the temperatures we are sustaining in the firebox, turning into a "clinker" or weak cement like substance. It takes a full three weeks running round the clock to fill our ash pan as long as one is burning good dry fuel of high BTU content such as oak, madrona, or extruded prest logs. We just finished all certification, UL safety, and CSA requirements for export to Canada. We can safely install this unit in a 22 x 26 inch space with no wall protection, and still putting out a top end of 40,000 but/hour on our high run.
the less ash, the better....but we do not have a contribution to the bio char effort.
Roger
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:31:27 +0700
From: mpare at gatech.edu
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10
Many possible answers to the rather broad topic of why certain things are leftover from combustion. In this case,
- Higher amounts of air -> more fuel "burned up". If you don't have enough air for stoichiometric combustion, then you'll be left with plenty of carbon and volatiles in your fuel.
- "Ash" is, as AD points out, what cannot be burnt at all in the fuel. It's a small fraction of typical fuels (wood <3%), with some exceptions (like rice husk >15%)
- Just because you can't see the particulates doesn't mean they aren't there. PM10 is 10 microns in size, a human hair is 100. Furthermore, it's the small particles that are the worst for your health.
Marc Paré
B.S. Mechanical Engineering
Georgia Institute of Technology | Université de Technologie de Compiègne
my cv, etc. | http://notwandering.com
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
Ok AD,
Thanks for that but if what you say is true, I guess I remain with the question then how is it, that more efficient stoves "burn up" the briquettes so completely that little if any ash is left. The same briquettes with same blend, processed the same way leave chunky black carbon bits-- the so called biochar when combusted poorly . If the ash in the former case is not being combusted how, then, is it being reduced .
I have seen Rok's holey rocket and it is not being pushed out as particulates, so….
Regards
Richard==========
On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
Dear Richard,
a small correction. Ash is the non-combustible part of the fuel.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:24 AM, Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
Sebo Robert,
I think that Rok is te real expert here, as he designed the stove and has tested it many times. I do know that essentialy, ash = unburnt fuel… Ultimately, no ash = perfect combustion. And of course it also depends uponwhat you are using…
Richard Stanley
On Jun 12, 2012, at 1:28 AM, ssemaganda Robert wrote:
Thanks for the nice stoves on this web site http://holeyroket.wordpress.com/2011/06/ but I would want to know how is one able to remove the ash that keeps accumulating b'se one thing I know with briquettes is that they produce alot of ash. I think you will agree with me in that!
let me hear from you stovers
Robert
From: "stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org" <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2012 10:00 PM
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. Fwd: on pre heating of biomass alongside the stove for near
instant ignition and if desired, smokeless emission of desired
aromatics (Richard Stanley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 12:17:56 -0700
From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
To: Stoves and biofuels network <Stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] Fwd: on pre heating of biomass alongside the stove
for near instant ignition and if desired, smokeless emission of
desired aromatics
Message-ID: <9AB0C3F9-0CCE-438D-A1E0-82427677AF21 at legacyfound.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Seconded, Paul (thanks for that).
...from Here to Etorroficany it is:
The briquettes at least seldom get so hot that you can't pick them up
in your hands for a few seconds, or at least long enough to toss them =
into the stove without burning yourself. Now when you figure out a way =
to add in eucalyptus leaves to drive off mossis with smokeless aromatic =
emissions out of wood (maybe you can do this with the raw wood source =
but I have not seen it happen on our own stove here at home: It seems =
the aromoatics are more easily emitted from the non wood faction of the =
biomass). =20
For anybody interested, please take a look at Rok Oblak's site: He =
pioneered the integration of molded-in fingers to his side fed briquette =
rocket stoves. The design is being used in several countries now. These =
and the story behind them is archived these on this site: =
http://holeyroket.wordpress.com/2011/06/
Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org
On Jun 6, 2012, at 7:04 AM, Paul Anderson wrote:
Stovers,
I edited Richard Stanley's message below to focus on fuel drying. I =
think the idea is great!!!
And it can be expanded to be small wire baskets that can hang on the =
sides or other means to keep the fuel close to the warm sides of the =
stoves. =20
Many of the current configurations of TLUD stoves could adopt this =
drying method very easily. =20
Alternatively for easily portable heat sources like many TLUDs, the fuel =
for drying could be in a "cage" or rack of some type into which the TLUD =
unit is placed, and then removed as in normal TLUD usage.
SAFETY NOTE: Fires should not be unattended, and fires near fuels that =
are being dried present even greater risks. But this is because of =
wayward sparks. In the absence of sparks, however, merely drying the =
fuels should not cause spontaneous combustion. Instead, the biomass =
might start to reach some torrification (like the over-browning of a =
piece of toast), which is not combustion.
Stovers should consider ways to dry fuels using "waste" ambient heat =
near the stoves.
Paul
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting FREE +1-309-452-7072end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 6/5/2012 2:21 PM, Richard Stanley wrote:
> =20
> George,
> ... snip ...
> You could even add a small fingers to hold briquettes alongside to =
super dry them for two benefits: near instant and near smokeless =
ignition, and emission of desired aromas (eg., eucalyptus leaf blends =
for flea /mozzie repellents, and lemon grass, cedar etc., etc., as used =
tradtionally for medicinal / cerimonial purposes---without smoke). You =
could, alternatively ... [use]... sheet metal riveted or fastened by =
simple slots in stove wall with matching bent tangs in the plate.=20
> =20
> Heres a simple 3D sketch of the idea; am only guessing at stove shape =
and configuration=20
[DrTLUD says: I was not able to attach Richard's diagram. Imagine a =
peg sticking out from the side of a TLUD stove, with a holey briquette =
on that peg. Or you can see it in his original message to the Stoves =
List. and it should be in the Archives of the Stoves Listserv. ]
> =20
> Richard Stanley
> www.legacfound.org
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
--Apple-Mail-6--76304495
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=us-ascii
<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Seconded, Paul (thanks for that). <div>...from Here to =
Etorroficany it is:</div><div><br></div><div> The briquettes at =
least seldom get so hot that you can't pick them up in your hands for a =
few seconds, or at least long enough to toss them into the stove without =
burning yourself. Now when you figure out a way to add in =
eucalyptus leaves to drive off mossis with smokeless aromatic emissions =
out of wood (maybe you can do this with the raw wood source but I have =
not seen it happen on our own stove here at home: It seems the =
aromoatics are more easily emitted from the non wood faction of the =
biomass). </div><div><br></div><div>For anybody interested, please =
take a look at Rok Oblak's site: He pioneered the integration of =
molded-in fingers to his side fed briquette rocket stoves. The design is =
being used in several countries now. These and the story behind them is =
archived these on this site: <a =
href=3D"http://holeyroket.wordpress.com/2011/06/">http://holeyroket.wordpr=
ess.com/2011/06/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Richard =
Stanley</div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.legacyfound.org">www.legacyfound.org</a></div><div><br>=
</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 6, 2012, at 7:04 AM, Paul =
Anderson wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
=20
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
Stovers,<br>
<br>
I edited Richard Stanley's message below to focus on fuel =
drying.
I think the idea is great!!!<br>
<br>
And it can be expanded to be small wire baskets that can hang on the
sides or other means to keep the fuel close to the warm sides of the
stoves. <br>
<br>
Many of the current configurations of TLUD stoves could adopt this
drying method very easily. <br>
<br>
Alternatively for easily portable heat sources like many TLUDs, the
fuel for drying could be in a "cage" or rack of some type into which
the TLUD unit is placed, and then removed as in normal TLUD =
usage.<br>
<br>
SAFETY NOTE: Fires should not be unattended, and fires near =
fuels
that are being dried present even greater risks. But =
this is
because of wayward sparks. In the absence of sparks, =
however,
merely drying the fuels should not cause spontaneous =
combustion.
Instead, the biomass might start to reach some torrification (like
the over-browning of a piece of toast), which is not combustion.<br>
<br>
Stovers should consider ways to dry fuels using "waste" ambient heat
near the stoves.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka =
"Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu">psanders at ilstu.edu</a> Skype: =
paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting FREE +1-309-452-7072end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Website: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<br>
On 6/5/2012 2:21 PM, Richard Stanley wrote:
<blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:E9CEC228-B197-47EA-8D0E-BC0CF731FF8F at legacyfound.org" =
type=3D"cite"><base href=3D"x-msg://133/">George,
<div> ... snip ...</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:E9CEC228-B197-47EA-8D0E-BC0CF731FF8F at legacyfound.org" =
type=3D"cite">
<div> You could even add a small fingers to hold briquettes
alongside to super dry them for two benefits: near instant =
and
near smokeless ignition, and emission of desired aromas =
(eg.,
eucalyptus leaf blends for flea /mozzie repellents, and =
lemon
grass, cedar etc., etc., as used tradtionally for medicinal /
cerimonial purposes---without smoke). You could, alternatively
... [use]... sheet metal riveted or fastened by simple =
slots in
stove wall with matching bent tangs in the plate.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Heres a simple 3D sketch of the idea; am only =
guessing at
stove shape and configuration <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
[DrTLUD says: I was not able to attach Richard's =
diagram. Imagine
a peg sticking out from the side of a TLUD stove, with a holey
briquette on that peg. Or you can see it in his original =
message to
the Stoves List. and it should be in the Archives of the Stoves
Listserv. ]<br>
<blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:E9CEC228-B197-47EA-8D0E-BC0CF731FF8F at legacyfound.org" =
type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>Richard Stanley</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
href=3D"http://www.legacfound.org/">www.legacfound.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div><br></div></body></html>=
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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10
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***
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Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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