[Stoves] interesting link

Ronald Hongsermeier rwhongser at web.de
Sat Jun 23 16:02:55 CDT 2012


Dear Ron,

AGW-theory began as a theory, became a religion, turned into a form of 
reactionary statism _and_ is being largely rejected, partly-- aside from 
the bad science and overwhelming number of uncheckable variables 
involved in the models-- because rapaciously greedy men lied and were 
exposed. Why are you so religiously following one of the financial 
schemes based on the lie? I just don't get it. When an advertising 
agency is running a promotion for something for one of their clients and 
finds out the client is lying about a product it seems that they are 
morally obliged to quit the campaign or face recriminatory legal action. 
Sorry, Ron, but you are logically challenged on your claim that anyone 
trying to tell the truth about anthropogenic global warming is 
detrimental to bettering stoves, simply because selling any program 
based on lies is detrimental to sustainable success of that program-- 
when the truth gets out, it will be discredited because it is linked 
emotionally in the minds of the customers with the lie, from which they 
-- rightly-- wish to reject and distance themselves. It appears to me 
that you have emotional "stock" in a carbon credits scheme which is 
clouding your thinking even more so than Denver's smog might be, as 
repugnant as that may be to you.

Lastly, as a point of history, are you convinced that "all" of the 
desertification in Sudan is due to commercial charcoal production?

Ronald von bayr. Betonificationnation







On 23.06.2012 20:54, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
> Andrew Parker and list:
>
>     As in my last reply to Ronald H,  I don't see that you are 
> providing links that will help lead to better stoves.  Lists like the 
> three in your "P.S." have zero interest in what this list is about - 
> and in fact I believe all three are doing a good job of making sure we 
> are unsuccessful in bringing about better stoves.
>
>    Your motivation (first sentence) for getting into this topic is 
> much like many on the list.  I started personally with concern about 
> the desertification disaster happening in Sudan - all because of 
> charcoal production in that country's boondocks.   Charcoal-making 
> stoves can help a lot with desertification/deforestation, even if the 
> char is used by others for cooking - because most present char 
> production is so horrible.
>
>      But many of us on this list have come to see the char as being 
> better for everyone if placed in the ground.  Carbon credits will be 
> helpful in that regard.  If done appropriately, they can also do a lot 
> to prevent (not encourage) what you rightfully deplore.  The issue for 
> this list should be on any/every approach that will give developing 
> country stove users better stoves.  With charcoal-making stoves, stove 
> users can even make money while cooking, while meeting your two 
> concerns: saving forests and gaining better health.
>
>    These topics, which seem important to you,  should be on the table 
> at Rio + 20  - and I can't see that they are.  Because, in part, of 
> the three sites listed below in your "P.S."
>
> Ron
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Andrew C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent: *Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:35:47 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] interesting link
>
> My interest in efficient stoves was spurred by deforestation and health
> concerns.  Now the forests I was trying to protect are slated to be
> cleared to make way for palm oil plantations to feed the carbon credits
> farce.  The people whose lives I hoped to improve are also being cleared
> and forced into refugee camps.  An environment that supported upwards of
> 100,000 will support only a few hundred.  For what?  For whom?
>
> Invoking the Precautionary Principle, we force the very people we seek to
> protect with our policies into immediate devastation, misery and death,
> rather than position ourselves to assist in the event that something bad
> might, maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to 100,000
> years as a result of man caused CO2 release.  This is Climate Justice?
>
> Its anthropogenic, but the suffering isn't because of climate change.
>
>
> Andrew Parker (not AJH)
>
>
> P.S.  If you don't like Climate Depot, try wattsupwiththat.com, or for
> math heads, climateaudit.org (I try, but it gives me a migraine).
>
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