[Stoves] Belonio burner top on TLUD stoves was Re: radiant heat capture, total heat measurement

Sat Mar 17 00:23:28 CDT 2012

Alexis,

Here is the drawing of your burner:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Drawings/005.pdf
Here is the drawing of the burner housing:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Drawings/006.pdf
The housing is not easy to make without large pressing equipment.

The housing is placed over the burner.
The two parts are welded together at the four points where they touch.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Boiling/IMG_1024a.JPG

446 stainless, as the drawings suggest, is too expensive.
Making both parts in cast iron could be considered.
But cast iron normally involves a considerable thickness.

I foresee a third part that fits above the burner housing.
This part is embedded within the counter-top.
This third part restrains the flow of excess air, and it shields the flames
from wind.

Thanks.
Paul

On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:16 AM, alexis belonio <atbelonio at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
> I agree with your statement!  Let others benefit from your work!
>
>
> "If Alexis Belonio agrees, I could also make available drawings of the
> burner and burner housing."
>
> If you can make  it to share your work, that would great!  You will
> harvest soon from that!
>
> God sees your heart and that is the most important in everything we do!
>
> Thanks a lot!!
>
> Alexis
>
> --- On *Sat, 3/17/12, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Belonio burner top on TLUD stoves was Re: [Stoves] radiant
> heat capture, total heat measurement
> To: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Corey Berman" <bizurman at gmail.com>,
> zong at ilstu.edu, "Hugh McLaughlin" <wastemin1 at verizon.net>, "Bob
> Fairchild" <solarbobky at yahoo.com>, "Alexis Belonio - Philippines" <
> atbelonio at yahoo.com>, "Chua He" <chuazh at gmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 6:45 AM
>
>
> Paul Anderson,
>
> I see no reason why the Belonio burner with a burner housing would not
> work on a natural draft unit.
> The only concern that I have is not what happens at the burner, but what
> happens within the reactor.
> If the reactor does not emit too much CO2, the burner and housing should
> work quite well.
>
> I will soon start mass-producing these two items in stainless steel,
>  and I will sell them at cost to anyone who wants to experiment with them.
> If Alexis Belonio agrees, I could also make available drawings of the
> burner and burner housing.
>
> Over this weekend I will build a counter-top to receive the 150 gasifier.
> This is what it will look like (all parts in sequence):
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/001.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/002.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/003.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/004.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/005.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/006.jpg
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP2/007.jpg
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Thanks.
> Paul Olivier
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu<http://mc/compose?to=psanders@ilstu.edu>
> > wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Paul Olivier commented:   (full message is still below, with link to a
> photo)
>
>  ..... which has always led me to wonder
>  why the Belonio burner hole pattern was not adopted on natural draft
> units.
> If a burner housing were added, I think the unit I experimented with would
> work much better.
>
>
> Paul O. raises an excellent point.  I think that the moderate complexity
> of the Belonio hole pattern and secondary air inlet (contrasted to simple
> concentrator hole) has kept me and probably most others from experimenting
> with it.  Perhaps we incorrectly associated it too much with the forced air
> (Fan Assisted = FA) aspects of Belonio's rice husk gasifiers.
>
> Very little is known about the tops of TLUDs except that some amount of
> constriction is needed to force the mixing of air and gases.
>
> I hope that the engineers (such as Bob Fairchild and student engineers)
> and others who are now working on TLUD stove issues will seriously consider
> the Belonio top and related enhancers of combustion of the gases.
>
> Paul    (Paul A.; not to be confused with Paul O.)
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as:    Dr TLUD      Doc      Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu<http://mc/compose?to=psanders@ilstu.edu>
> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf<http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf>(excellent ref.)
> My website specific for TLUD information: www.drtlud.com  =
> www.DrTLUD.com
>
>
> Quoting Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com<http://mc/compose?to=paul.olivier@esrla.com>
> >:
>
>  Kevin,
>
> You say:
> *# OK!! A 50% reduction in boiling time is very significant.
> What can you now tell us that will enable us to apply it to other stoves
> and combustion conditions?*
>
> I once did an experiment in which I made the 150 Belonio about half its
> original height.
> I then filled it with chunks of wood and put a Belonio burner on top.
> This was a natural draft unit without a fan.
> This is what it looked like:
>
>
>  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**22013094/150%20Burner/**Image2097.jpg<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Burner/Image2097.jpg>
>
>
>  But looking back on this, I see that there were so many problems with this
> burner,
>  even aside from the fact that it had no burner housing.
>
> You raise an interesting question, though, which has always led me to
> wonder
>  why the Belonio burner hole pattern was not adopted on natural draft
> units.
> If a burner housing were added, I think the unit I experimented with would
> work much better.
> The central problem that I see with a natural draft unit is an uneven
> upward flow of primary air.
> At times too much CO2 is created, and some burner holes lose their flames.
> Also I would imagine that the inlet of primary air has to be strictly
> control to get a consistent outlet of gas at the burner.
>
> A natural draft TLUD is very complicated,
>  and I truly marvel at those who get them to work on such a broad variety
> of fuels.
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
>

-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD
27C Pham Hong Thai Street
Dalat
Vietnam

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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