[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 19, Issue 49

musah nurudeen musahnurudeen at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 23 05:46:22 CDT 2012 

please sir could you please help me with these following quetions concerning stoves 

what is the difference between a stove,a burner.and a furnace  in terms of their temperature,
design and construction materials 

if they give different temp.ranges,what make them give different temperature ranges

Can wick flames, heat a material to 400deg celsius 

one difference i have notice about liquid petroleum gas stoves is they heat materials better than kerosene wick stoves. why?

i please need help.




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Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 19, Issue 49
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Cleaning up on cleaned Dung (Richard Stanley)
   2. Re: air velocity (Anand Karve)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:15:04 -0700
From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
    <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] Cleaning up on cleaned Dung
Message-ID: <65352B1D-25DC-41C6-88DB-9E14036439AE at legacyfound.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Andrew,

Tried to upgrade the title abit:  Do you think it will stand at Stanford now ?  

To the point, though, its a great idea they evolved --for the start up of the process --the missing part is agreed, how to continue it on a sustaining basis,  donor involvement or no?

We focus on what others cannot do along the line of introducing a new technology. 
In that regard, one could forecast  something like the following continuum;
1. Development of production capacity, then  
2) sales and marketing capacity, 
3) and training capacity,
and finally, 
4) networking and policy promotion national awareness national association capacity (whether formal or informal) . 

We're pretty much focussed in the general  between developing training capacity and marketing and networking capacity-- in most locations,   the impending exception being a rather intensive direct effort to launch a brand new program in mezo America at the moment. 

With each step comes a way to monetise it: 
? training producers who then produce briquettes and the machines and sell them locally,
?  training trainers  amongst the interested and more articulate and creative of the producers--who again learn to sell their training services. 
  ? Marketing types often enter stage left here, to promote the product over larger areas with their own commission arrangements,

Next  its about  building networking capacity from amongst the more connected training teams, the support of whom comes from the good donors development institutions  (could also evolve to a national association of briquette producers, such as is evolving in Kenya and Tanzania and Uganda now. However, it will be some time before one sees such supporting directly networking and lobby efforts without external support. 

It all hinged on the 'sellability' of the briquette. Thats why we spend some time tying to really acertain its economic social environmental, etc., viability before we dive in-and we are still not batting much better than a 70% success  rate (=local producer trainer teams are self sufficient after a year on), quite frankly. 

Although admittedly tangent to the serious thrust of the more technical participants on the stoves biofuels list, this idea of really looking hard at sellability of the product,  is an  important one to raise periodically. Its not only the simle idea of selling something at a price but discivering how it can be accepted as part of the culture. That in turn begets   need for  development of hte product with and not for the so called beneficiary ---as participant in the process.  

In trying to reach a large population with a new idea it needs to become part of their own culture. They need to own it. They need to have had sufficient input, as to how it will look, feel and work in their culture, as to be confident and eager to take it on. This transferrance is essential in the overall process and it is the least understood on the mentioned lists?

So I continue to be a polite if long winded thorn, if you will, cleaning the sticky dung of development. 

Aluta continua,

Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org

On Mar 20, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Andrew C. Parker wrote:

Richard and Crispin,

First, I would like to point out that while I am interested in your tangent, I am not sure that future generations will take note, given the title. ;-)

Second, many years ago at an Overseas Development Network Conference at Stanford, one of the presenters proposed that an effective method for development would be to start up a business, train workers, take the brightest and most aggressive of them and fire them, or otherwise encourage them to leave, so they will start up competing businesses, then let your own business die away quietly and take your leave.

I never saw a study done.  I suppose, other than the risk of bodily harm, it might be a viable strategy, but how would you sell it to a donor?


Andrew Parker

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:13:38 +0800
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
    <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] air velocity
Message-ID:
    <CACPy7SdtQOUenJhz3AnhMSdkYt4p+x16pGOTcatXcp=pciBiPQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Dear Mr. Tuladhar,
sorry to admit that I don't know the answer.
Yours
A.D.Karve

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Sarbagya Tuladhar <sarbagya007 at gmail.com>wrote:

>  Hi Mr Kavre,
>
> Thanks a lot for the info.
>
> What would you say would be the air velocity for the Prakti Leo stove (2
> pot chimney) or any similar kind of 2 pot stove( natural convection)
>
> Cheers
> Sarbagya Tuladhar
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 21/03/2012, at 2:42 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Dear Mr. Tuladhar,
>  One can generalise that the air entering the stove goes out through the
> pot hole and the chimney. There are stoves in which the volume of
> air entering the stove through the grate is reduced while that of the
> scondary air entering the stove through the firemouth is enhanced. There
> are also stoves in which the pot sits flush on the stove, so that all the
> outgoing air has to pass through chimney. But there are also chimneyless
> stoves. Thus, the amount of air entering or leaving the stove through
> various inlets and outlets and their velocities depend very much on the
> stove design.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Sarbagya Tuladhar <sarbagya007 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Stovers,
>>
>> Just veering off the topic of dung for a moment, has anyone got any kind
>> of data on the air velocity for natural convection stoves.. Any kind of
>> data would be useful ? Could be air velocity at the cooktops or the chimney
>> ? I suppose the max velocity would be at the chimney area due to the
>> chimney effect (draft)..
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Sarbagya
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Sarbagya Tuladhar <sarbagya007 at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting indeed. However stink is not as much a problem when dried
>>> completely. Even with the dung briquettes, the stink is no more when dried.
>>> However, the case with pyrolyzing the dung and releasing the hamrful
>>> toxins, if the smoke and aroma can be removed then thats certainly worth a
>>> try. Any more info on Francis of Kenya ?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Sarbagya
>>>
>>>  On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Richard Stanley <
>>> rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is interesting. Out in Miumbuni village, about 2hrs east of
>>>> Nairobi and another hr off the Mombassa road, is a one Francis Kavita who
>>>> has been working with the Masaai in developing cow dung based briquettes
>>>> that do not stink: He has developed same with elephant dung in south
>>>> Eastern Kenya (near Tasavo)  and is now breaking ground with camel dung
>>>> based blends for use in the refugee camps in Somalia. He has tested them
>>>> and he says the work well without smoke or aroma.
>>>> He has no numbers for
>>>> what he ahas done but is still far more experience than anyone else,
>>>> including all the Phd students we know of. If he says it will work I
>>>> believe it:
>>>>
>>>> We started him in briquette making in 1999, and trained he and his wife
>>>> Mary in 2007 as trainers and they have been all over east Africa training
>>>> others?on their own?, ever since.  The problem is not that it works or does
>>>> not work, Its a case of what we need to be convinced of it. The Phd study
>>>> or   Francis' experience. After all he only has a 4th grade education.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, can we evolve a more balanced discovery model with due
>>>> respect for the unique contributions of knowledge and experience that *
>>>> both* have to offer.
>>>>
>>>> Richard Stanley
>>>> www.legacyfound
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:26 PM, SARBAGYA TULADHAR wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Stovers,
>>>>
>>>> I am undertaking my uni graduate project on the  Use of CFD for the
>>>> study of heat transfer and convection in a Dung Burning Cookstove. With
>>>> this project, a heat transfer and convection analysis would be carried out
>>>> using Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) for the optimization of dung
>>>> burning cooktove that is currently being developed in Nepal. The analysis
>>>> would involve simulation to predict the performance of the cookstove and
>>>> would set up a benchmark for improved stove manufacturing in Nepal. This
>>>> analysis would also assist in providing the experimental and the simulation
>>>> results towards getting the stove certified as an ?Improved Cookstove?.
>>>>
>>>> However to simulate the dung burning I had to resort to using the fixed
>>>> heat source instead as modeling combustion/pyrolysis of dung was beyond the
>>>> scope of the project. So what could be the heat output from burning 1 kg.
>>>> of dung. How mush heat would be released from this ? Is that the calorific
>>>> value dung ? As I would be using a fixed temperature heat source, what
>>>> could be that temperature ?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Sarbagya Tuladhar
>>>>
>>>>  On 13/02/2012, at 2:27 AM, Anand Karve wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Dear Richard,
>>>>  The undigested solid matter in the dung is in fact the lignocellulosic
>>>> matter, However, in the case of ruminents, it is not in a fibrous form but
>>>> in the form of particles due to the practice of chewing the cud.  It is the
>>>> dung of non-ruminents, like horses and elephants that has fibres.
>>>> Yours
>>>> A.D.Karve
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Richard Stanley <
>>>> rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ad,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I don't personally think the solids would be of much value for a good
>>>>> briquette:  What I would look for personally, is  your lignocellulosic
>>>>> material, ( the more fibrous stuff)  to encapsulate other more carbon rich
>>>>> salt free, materials sawdust charcoal crumbs/ dust, selected agro residues
>>>>> with aromatic-or non aromatic- considerations depending upon what kind of
>>>>> fuel aroma and duration of heat you desire.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Stanley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Cattle dung consists mainly of non-digestible lignocellulosic
>>>>> material, millions of micro-organisms, mucus produced by the animals and
>>>>> by the microbes, and some minerals. In fact it is the microbes and the
>>>>> mucus in the dung that yield biogas on anaerobic fermentation.
>>>>> A pressurised sieve, technically called a filter press, is the best device
>>>>> for separating the non-soluble solids from the fluids. If the fluids
>>>>> contained the microbes and the mucus, they should be subjected to anaerobic
>>>>> digestion before allowing them to be used as manure.  Dung also has a very
>>>>> high ash content, because of which its calorific value is rather low. Dry
>>>>> dung has calorific value of about 3500 kcal/kg.  Has anybody measured the
>>>>> calorific value of the solids in the dung, after removal of the fluids from
>>>>> it by using a filter press?
>>>>> Yours
>>>>> A.D.Karve
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Sarbagya Tuladhar <
>>>>> sarbagya007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi Boston
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I volunteered with EWB Australia in Nepal working on a clean dung
>>>>>> burning stove and thus worked with the dung as a fuel . Washing of the dung
>>>>>> was done and briquettes which was a real success. Paper pulp used as a
>>>>>> binder worked really well. Also the chloride contents of the dung which is
>>>>>> responsible for watery eyes was removed on washing the dung which was
>>>>>> proven by the copper wire test. We even fabricated a simple dung press for
>>>>>> the same. The liquid portion of the dung was reutilised as manure in the
>>>>>> fields. Thus the whole sceptism about "should" use dung as manure in the
>>>>>> fields and not as a cooking fuel was somewhat solved. Did not test the NPK
>>>>>> contents of the liquid portion though...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sarbagya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/02/2012, at 2:06 AM, Boston Nyer <bostonnyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking to clean/rinse cow dung and do not have any experience
>>>>>> doing so.  Does anyone have any experience cleaning dung and would like to
>>>>>> share?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>> Boston
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Boston
>>>>>>  Skype: BostonNyer
>>>>>> Cell: (585) 503-3459
>>>>>> www.burndesignlab.org
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ***
>>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>>>>> (ARTI)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ***
>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>>>> (ARTI)
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
>
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-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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