[Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp

Sat Aug 10 16:01:23 CDT 2013

Dear Cecil and All Stovers,

My apology for the delayed response.   After the Aprovecho Stove Camp,  it has taken me more than a  week to catch up with domesticities, can a few dozen of my  "to-die-for"  Blueberry-Lime Jam and to redesign the Standard (Family size) Eco-Kalan and the Eco-Kalan-C models. 

Now to answer Cecil's questions and to comment on his excellent observations:

 If it is this stove, can someone explain to me how the cost to produce these three components comes - as reported by Rebecca - to $25?  How can the cost of production for a fired clay stove produced by local potters and ceramic workers in the Philippines possibly cost that much?  In Java I am sure the indigenous stove makers would be able to produce them for $2.50 to $3 each; the retail price would be perhaps $4 to $5.  

If the same ECO-KALAN C stove is on display at Stove Camp, then can somebody who is attending the camp find out how a ceramic stove that would probably retail for $4 to $5 in Indonesia (all costs in) can possibly cost a charitable stove agent in the Philippines $28 per stove to produce and bring to market??..I understand that Rebecca is including all the cost to her stove charity to produce, store, transport, distribute, promote, demonstrate and finally to market an improved stove. 

There must be well established traditional stoves on the markets in her area that sell for less than 500 pesos each ($11.50) and stove customers are simply not willing to spend an additional 700 pesos ($16) - which may take a low income household a month of scrimping to save - to purchase the higher performance ECO-KALAN C stove.

1.  PRICES TO DONORS

The U$27/set price tag (production cost) of the ECO-KALAN-C and  US$18/set for the STANDARD  ECO-KALAN  are the prices I charge to Eco-Kalan Donors who donate to poor mountain communities in conflict regions (with rebel  insurgencies) in the province of Negros Oriental , Philippines. The donors present the eco-kalans themselves  at a pre-arranged special ceremony .   In return for the donation, donors can stay at Felipa Beach for a month with full cooking, maid and Eco-Kalan staff services  free of charge.   These presentations are documented in YOUTUBE videos at:

http://www.eco-kalan.com/index.php?id=29,0,0,1,0,0   

 The facilities at Felipa Beach can be  viewed at Rebecca Vermeer's Google+ photo album :

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5900103819444327585    

2.   PRODUCTION COSTS

 A detailed breakdown of our  "Production Cost " using 2010 and 2011 production data is shown below: 

 CONCLUSIONS FROM ABOVE COST DATA:

 a)   Grants for  monitoring and educational programs,  demonstration and presentation costs would take a third off the production cost of the Standard Eco-Kalan. 

b)   Economies of Scale -  the higher the production levels, the lower the unit cost of the eco-kalans.   Upscaling production to 6,000 sets per year would lead to optimum utilization of bucong and eco-kalan storage facilities and reduce 79% of  production cost to one-third its value.

c)   The combination of grants and upscaling of production would make room for an increase in the price paid to the potters and still keep the retail price within the affordable range and a payback period of 1-2 months. 

3.   COMPARISON OF RETAIL PRICES AND PRODUCTION COSTS

LEFT TO RIGHT:                                 RETAIL PRICE IN DUMAGUETE    PRODUCTION                    PRICE PAID TO

                                                                       PHILIPPINES                                COST                                     POTTERS

1. TRADITIONAL KALAN (Big)      Php 150 (US$3.50)                                           ?

2. ECO-KALAN-C                               Php 500 (US$11.54)                         Php 1174 (US$27)             Php 220 ($5.10)

3. STANDARD ECO-KALAN            Php 350 (US$8.10)                           Php 772 (US$18)               Php 120 ($2.78)

4. TRADITIONAL KALAN (small) Php 70   (US$1.62)                                            ?

                                                                RETAIL PRICE IN JAVA 

                                                                       INDONESIA

 INDONESIAN CLAY STOVES               US$4 - $5                                                                                      US$2.50 - $3.00 

(according Cecil Cook; NO other info was given)

NOTES ON THE  TRADITIONAL  KALANS:

1.   OPEN FIRING -- RAW KALANS SIT ON A BED OF FIREWOOD & OTHER BIOMASS FUELS;  COVERED WITH MORE FIREWOOD AND SET ON FIRE FOR ABOUT 2 HRS.   (In contrast, the ECO-KALAN  is kiln-fired at controlled temperatures  over a 10 hour period up to 900 degrees Celsius using a pyrometer).

2.   DEPENDING ON THE CLAY,  POTTERS BRUSH THE RAW KALAN WITH RED CEMENT SOLUTION  TO GIVE THE KALAN A BRICK REDDISH COLOUR AFTER FIRING.

3.   RED CEMENT  IS USED TO TOUCH -UP AND HIDE CRACKS AND OTHER  DEFECTS IN THE TRADITIONAL KALANS.  The big traditional Kalan shown in the above photo cracked on one side of the kalan all the way to a pot support within a few minutes of use during a Cooking Performance Test.   The Eco-Kalan Project only sells PERFECT Eco-Kalans -- no hidden cracks; no other defects.

4.  INFERIOR COOKING PERFORMANCE  COMPARED TO ECO-KALANS.

   -- RATIO OF FIREWOOD CONSUMPTION OF TRADITIONAL KALANS TO ECO-KALAN STANDARD IS  5:1.

  --  SIGNIFICANT FUEL SAVINGS (min.Php 500 /month) WHEN HOUSEHOLD CONVERTS TO ECO-KALAN.

  -- BIG TRADITIONAL KALAN CANNOT CARRY HEAVY LOADS OF FOOD THAT AN ECO-KALAN -C  CAN DO.

 --  EXTREME RADIANT HEAT EXPOSURE . 

 For details see following  3 pages on ATTRIBUTES OF THE ECO-KALANS;  TABLES 1B,2B & 3B -- COOKING PERFORMANCE AND FUEL SAVINGS;  TABLE 6 -- COOKING WITH ECO-KALAN-C  or in the LINKS  below. 

COOKING ON ECO-KALAN-C

https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5900103819444327585

ECO-KALAN PROJECT IN THE PHILIPPINES 

Presented  to the Rotary Club of Sidney, British Columbia, Canada

July 19, 2013

https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5898258706868741537

FURTHER COMMENTS FROM CECIL COOK

The benefits offered to a stove buyer's household have to be obvious to consumers who will not be willing to give up the familiar conveniences of their baseline stoves.  It will be dramatic reductions in fuel collected or purchased together with equally dramatic improvements in 

(i.)    speed of stove ignition and smoke production during start up, 

(ii.)   ability of a stove to burn damp or wet wood, 

(iii.)  the ability of a stove to combust multiple biomass fuels, 

(iv.)  the capacity to turn up a stove's power to accelerate the cooking process or to cook for special 

        occasions and the extended family, 

(v.)   the capacity of an improved stove to performs both household and home industry functions  with

        equal facility, 

(vi.)  little or no change required in stove operation techniques and knowledge to successfully cook on an 

        improved stove and to get full benefit of its higher performance, and

(vii.) the capacity of an improved stove to replicate all of the essential stove work functions traditionally

        performed by dominant baseline stove(s) or by radically improving one or more specific stove

        work functions such as introducing a TLUD stove that cook like an LPG stove thereby minimizing soot 

        accumulation on pots and pans and making a much cleaner kitchen possible.

In my experience, it is the savings of money, time and effort to low income households at the Bottom of the Pyramid rather that 'saving' the lungs, eyes and health of stove users that will determine whether new stoves will gradually gain an increasing share of the 'traditional' stove market

I fully agree with Cecil's observations.  In comparison  to the baseline Traditional Kalans, 3-Stones , and Hollow Blocks with Rebars  cookstoves, the Standard Eco-Kalan and the Eco-Kalan-C  have already achieved   "dramatic reductions in fuel collected or purchased together with equally dramatic improvements in"  the above parameters listed in item (i) to (vii).   What remains to be done are:

   a)  to upscale production  in order to achieve economies of scale;  and

   b)  to obtain grants for the monitoring, educational and humanitarian programs the Eco-Kalan

         Project  are engaged in.  However, these are areas where the Project  needs help.

 Only then will we be able to market the Eco-Kalans  at prices consumers at the Bottom of the Pyramid are willing and able to pay.

Sincerely,

Rebecca A. Vermeer

Eco-Kalan Project

Email:  ravermeer at telus.net

Website:  www.eco-kalan.com

From: Rebecca A. Vermeer 
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:39 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
Cc: Art Donnelly 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp

Hello Cecil,
Thank you for your excellent questions and comments.  I will answer you later today after I get some sleep.   It is only now –August 1 at 2:36 AM  in British Columbia, Canada – that I read your email.  I have been busy cleaning my house after a painting and drywalling job  during a 10 day absence;  and reviewing with my staff and potters in the Philippines possible changes to the Eco-kalan designs.  Regards,
Rebecca
From: Cecil Cook 
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:49 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
Cc: Art Donnelly 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp

Ditto the appreciation.  

Can you name, describe and link us to the rocket stove from the Philippines?  Is it the three component clay ECO-KALAN C stove that was recently introduced to the stove discussion group by Rebecca A Vermeer? 

If it is this stove, can someone explain to me how the cost to produce these three components comes - as reported by Rebecca - to $25?  How can the cost of production for a fired clay stove produced by local potters and ceramic workers in the Philippines possibly cost that much?  In Java I am sure the indigenous stove makers would be able to produce them for $2.50 to $3 each; the retail price would be perhaps $4 to $5.  

If the same ECO-KALAN C stove is on display at Stove Camp, then can somebody who is attending the camp find out how a ceramic stove that would probably retail for $4 to $5 in Indonesia (all costs in) can possibly cost a charitable stove agent in the Philippines $28 per stove to produce and bring to market??..I understand that Rebecca is including all the cost to her stove charity to produce, store, transport, distribute, promote, demonstrate and finally to market an improved stove. 

There must be well established traditional stoves on the markets in her area that sell for less than 500 pesos each ($11.50) and stove customers are simply not willing to spend an additional 700 pesos ($16) - which may take a low income household a month of scrimping to save - to purchase the higher performance ECO-KALAN C stove. In the end the battle to take and hold market share has to be fought and won in the local stove markets.  The benefits offered to a stove buyer's household have to be obvious to consumers who will not be willing to give up the familiar conveniences of their baseline stoves.  It will be dramatic reductions in fuel collected or purchased together with equally dramatic improvements in 

(i.)    speed of stove ignition and smoke production during start up, 
(ii.)   ability of a stove to burn damp or wet wood, 
(iii.)  the ability of a stove to combust multiple biomass fuels, 
(iv.)  the capacity to turn up a stove's power to accelerate the cooking process or to cook for special 
        occasions and the extended family, 
(v.)   the capacity of an improved stove to performs both household and home industry functions  with
        equal facility, 
(vi.)  little or no change required in stove operation techniques and knowledge to successfully cook on an 
        improved stove and to get full benefit of its higher performance, and
(vii.) the capacity of an improved stove to replicate all of the essential stove work functions traditionally
        performed by the dominant baseline stove(s) or by radically improving one or more specific stove
        work functions such as introducing a TLUD stove that cooks very clean thereby minimizing soot 
accumulation on pots and pans and n in a much cleaner kitchen possible,

e savings of money, time and effort to low income households at the Bottom of the Pyramid rather that 'saving' the lungs, eyes and health of stove users that will determine whether new stoves will gradually gain an increasing share of the 'traditional' stove market.   

On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:14 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:

  List:

      This just a short summary of yesterday's first of five days at the Aprovecho Stove Camp.   This year, they are focusing on TLUDs.  About 50 people were at the opening session, with about 20 - 25 from the different parts of Aprovecho, and maybe 10 staying of those on as part of the camp.  
      The old timers here included
       a  Dean Still, who was the key organizer.  I was most amazed of everything here about how much Aprovecho has grown and changed over the 15 or so years I have known Dean  (who says he will retire in a year).
         1.   We go maybe today to a new factory for an off-shot firm called InStove  (Only institutional stoves  (like one 100 liters).  Damon Ogle is with them now. A first overseas factory coming soon.  Only Rocket principles here.
         2.  We will visit the factory where they are making the US StoveTec 
         3.  We will visit a new 5 acre campus about 6 miles away - a former high school where they will be moving to this year.
         4.   I heard a little about a new large research grant from DoE - one of four nationally,
         5.   There were staff people all over the place - maybe more than ten (?) not part of the camp.  
         6.   A key organizer who introduced Dean was Mark Hatfield.   
         7.  Owner of the Apro property was Fred Colgan - alo head of InStove
         8.  Larry Winiarski is a leader of one on 4-5 subgroups that formed.  Interestng oven design with a Rocket, built by a couple named Anderson.   Also a ceramic Rocket from  Philippines.
         9.  Dean is leading one of the 4-5 subgroups - which is mostly on TLUDs, but one large plancha design (18 by 24 inch - $22) plancha from Guatemala.   Much of yesterday  learning how to use test equipment

      b.  Paul Anderson, who brought 10 flat packs of a nice looking new TLUD design from Uganda, for on-site assembly.  
  Maybe 8-10 people in his subgoup.  Mostly will be doing testing here on (like all)
  Paul gave a nice one hour intro to TLUDS.  Both a son and grandson are here.

      c.  Art Donnelly at last minute decided to assemble one of his very large TLUD stoves from Costa Rica.  His primary air control from slight tilt using a wedge at the bottom.

  Of course many new-comers.   I ended up speaking most to three school teachers from D.C., hoping to establish a stove design challenge for 7th and 8th graders

  More coming.    Questions?      Ron

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