[Stoves] corn cobs and char
Tom Miles
tmiles at trmiles.com
Thu Aug 15 17:12:10 CDT 2013
We worked with Iowa State University and Andersons Cob Products, Ohio, in
the 1970s on alternate uses for corn cobs. In 1978 Anderson published,
"Physical Properties, Chemical Properties and Uses of Andersons' Corncob
Products" 425 pages. Corn cobs are a very versatile material. Charcoal and
activated charcoal are listed as possible products. Not all uses were for
household energy applications. Anderson's made two grades of cob products
that could be used as a cavity filler for cadavers. The cobs replaced space
"from organs that may have been removed by a medical examination or autopsy
so that the body is presentable for viewing in the casket."
Tom
From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Art Donnelly
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:24 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char
Hi all,
It has been a busy few days, so forgive me if someone has already made these
observations. We have used corn cobs with great success in the TLUD style
Estufa Finca stoves. I love showing people our little tiny corn cob
charcoal. We have also successfully made a lot of biochar from dried corn
stover in our version of the 55-gal drum TLUd style J-Ros. MIT has also
promoted both of these approaches in it's Field-to-fuel program in Haiti and
Nicaragua.
But there is a problem with thinking of corn cobs as a stove fuel: most cobs
are used as animal feed (pigs/chickens) and needed for it. Applying a
hierarchy or best use: the pigs win! However pelleted or briquetted corn
stover mixed with paper waste seems like it has a lot of potential.
Art
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: corn cobs and char? (Ronal W. Larson)
2. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Andrew C. Parker)
3. Re: corn cobs and char? (revjcsd at juno.com)
4. Re: corn cobs and char? (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
5. Re: corn cobs and char? (revjcsd at juno.com)
6. Re: corn cobs and char? (Ronal W. Larson)
7. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Anand Karve)
8. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Andrew C. Parker)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Message-ID: <0C9BBA9A-CCC2-4A20-9443-DA38B198ECA9 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
List, Tom etal:
Thanks for all the inputs. Any others on corn cobs would still be
potentially helpful.
My interest is only in the pyrolysis of such (for biochar production in a
simple stove reasons, of course), and (as noted by many below) their low
energy density makes pyrolysis difficult in TLUD. Re corncobs themselves in
the US, this cite I found helpful:
http://renewables.morris.umn.edu/biomass/documents/Zych-TheViabilityOfCornCo
bsAsABioenergyFeedstock.pdf
This site
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/alwayssomethingnew/Waste11.pdf
says that globally there are 35 Gt cobs per year - which would make about as
much available as char as total annual fossil emissions. - of 7-8 Gt C (very
few of them now being used for anything). But this sounds way too high,
but 35 million tons sounds too low. I have read 15% of a corn plant is in
the cob, and annual production is approaching 1 Gt C. Anyone an expert on
corn? In any case, corn os the world's largest grain crop - in both
hectares and tons now, I believe - so their should be some cooking
application for cobs somewhere
This site has a good 2012 paper on corn by Zhang
thescipub.com/pdf/10.3844/ajbbsp.2012.44.53
The reason for asking about cobs is not only that they are pretty widely
available, but they are not a bad size and shape (especially compared to
rice husks, which get a lot of attention in the stove world)
I am looking for reasons to drop the corn cob thread, but not yet found
it.
Might as well design for the EPA testing protocol (5 kg water, 45
minute simmer??, etc). Can anyone supply that (in published form
preferably) in terms of anticipated energy need to the pot.? After which
we can figure 30-40% (or different Tiers) stove efficiency. Then we can
go to container sizes, number of fuel switches per test, etc.
The first site above says about 5 GJ/m3 for corncobs (and 12 for wood
pellets), so (forgetting reloading) the fuel volume needs to be about 2.4
times larger than one with pellets that is also a char-producer. But down
draft also allows reloading, not possible with TLUDs. And (maybe) we can
avoid a larger fuel container and achieve lower first cost with BLDD.
Anyone been thinking along these (corn or BLDD) lines?
I have in mind a downdraft design that I think can overcome the space and
several other problems with TLUDs. Nothing much on paper, but I'd be glad
to discuss the BLDD topic with anyone - in an open source context. This is
NOT dependent on corn cobs, but came out of thinking about cobs.
Ron
On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:34 AM, "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> It seems to me that we have seen cobs burned with wood fuels in stoves for
> several years, especially in Latin America.
>
> A challenge with crop residues is that they have enough air in the stalks,
> cobs and stems to barely support combustion so they tend to smolder rather
> than burn. A little wood provides enough of a pilot flame to keep the
> combustible gases ignited.
>
> Tom
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:31:04 -0600
From: "Andrew C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador
Message-ID: <op.w1tpx2u2uoov7l at dad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
Another step in the government's marketing campaign (I used to publish a
small newspaper, so the process intrigues me). For those of you who are
considering a major product launch, take notice. (Keep in mind, El
Universo is a major opposition newspaper, though recently editorially
hobbled but not totally controlled. I have not been following this story
in the government owned media.)
<http://www.eluniverso.com/noticias/2013/08/14/nota/1288706/sube-demanda-coc
inas-induccion-calentadores>
Important points to consider, when converting to electric cooking
appliances in Ecuador and many other countries, is that electrical service
is often a hit-and-miss affair, and service is often acquired(stolen)
using appliance cord. I hope to see that addressed in upcoming articles,
probably coinciding with the next big service interruption or tragic
electrical fire (which will compensate for the reduction in the number of
tragic tank explosions).
I am not opposed to conversion to electric (it is still preferable to a
wholesale switch to biomass*), I just don't have confidence that the
government can meet the increased demand for electricity and provide it
reliably.
*(My great fear is the government turning to biomass fueled power plants.
I see biomass best used as a local solution, where appropriate, i.e. a
sustainable supply without increasing ecological damage. When it is
proposed as a national, regional or global solution, mayhem ensues. What
little I have seen on state television hints that the current preferred
solution will be patriotic reductions in energy use, which brings us back
to biomass stoves.)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:03:12 GMT
From: "revjcsd at juno.com" <revjcsd at juno.com>
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Message-ID: <20130815.050312.10329.2 at webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Ron,
On page 24 of the following link:
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-
C19F-44AE-AA75
<http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D
-C19F-44AE-AA75-18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf
>
-18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf
corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency.
Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is
correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received
any response.
Fr Juanito
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:44:51 +0000
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Message-ID:
<511447701-1376516692-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-194335528- at b2
7.c10.bise6.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Juanito
Do they define what they mean by 'thermal efficiency'? That may change the
impression given.
Regards
Crispin
>From BB9900
-----Original Message-----
From: "revjcsd at juno.com" <revjcsd at juno.com>
Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:03:12
To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Ron,
On page 24 of the following link:
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-
C19F-44AE-AA75
<http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D
-C19F-44AE-AA75-18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf
>
-18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf
corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency.
Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is
correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received
any response.
Fr Juanito
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:52:30 GMT
From: "revjcsd at juno.com" <revjcsd at juno.com>
To: crispinpigott at gmail.com, stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Message-ID: <20130815.055230.21137.0 at webmail04.dca.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Crispin,
No. I suspect something is lost in the translation from Thai to English.
I asked to have the claim confirmed but so far, I have not received a
response.
Juanito
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:44:51 +0000
Dear Juanito
Do they define what they mean by 'thermal efficiency'? That may change the
impression given.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:12:12 -0600
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
Message-ID: <C25A84C8-D68B-43F3-A8B0-304EDF3A965C at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Fr. Juanito and list
1, Re p 24. It was favorable to see cobs come out ahead of chips and
char, but it seemed (I could not make the video work), that was almost
certainly combustion and neither gasification nor pyrolysis. I need data
for pyrolysis, not gasification - which seemed to be the main topic of the
PPt, but there was a lot on the Belonio stove. Dr. Olivier has advanced
that design a lot.
2. Slide 15 was badly in error, showing a TLUD and putting the word
"combustion" where the word "pyrolysis" should appear.
3. One doesn't need to be a Thai reader to enjoy this PPt. - maybe 2% in
Thai.
Thanks a lot for the added info.
Ron
.
On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:03 PM, revjcsd at juno.com wrote:
> Ron,
>
>
> On page 24 of the following link:
>
>
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-
C19F-44AE-AA75
> -18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf
>
>
> corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency.
>
>
> Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is
correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received
any response.
>
> Fr Juanito
>
>
>
> From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char?
> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:44:47 +0530
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador
Message-ID:
<CACPy7Sfnd4sxAbO75gesFqMcCS33Fch7zbAP6axD9YxXtWVMdA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Andrew,
there is no need for anything to get ugly if urban households switched to
biomass. If one used stoves having electrically driven fans, biomass can
be burned as cleanly as kerosene or LPG. If more electricity is going to be
available in Ecuador, it can be used for briquetting agricultural waste.
This has now grown into a thriving industry in India. The briquette makers
buy agricultural waste from farmers and sell the briquettes to
industries as boiler fuel. If an industry uses biomass briquettes instead
of fuel oil as boiler fuel, it saves almost 60% of the fuel cost. A company
of which I am the Chairman of the board, sells large stoves of this type to
restaurants, which have switched over from LPG to using biomass briquettes.
The cities themselves produce a large amount of combustible waste like
cardboard, waste paper and leaf litter. Richard Stanley's method of
briquetting can be used for turning urban waste into fuel briquettes for
use in urban household stoves.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Andrew C. Parker
<acparker at xmission.com>wrote:
> There is probably enough ag waste to fuel rural kitchens, but if urban
> households switch to biomass, it will get really ugly, which would be a
> shame for such a beautiful country.
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--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:55:10 -0600
From: "Andrew C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador
Message-ID: <op.w1uf18s6uoov7l at dad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
Dr. Karve,
Thank you for your input. My concern is that demand for biomass would
outstrip the supply of agricultural waste and suppliers would begin
behaving like the charcoal burners of pre-subsidy days. I suppose, before
wringing my hands, I could compare the current demand of LPG against the
availability and estimated energy of ag waste, but I don't have those
figures available. Perhaps a grad student could be convinced to do it for
a thesis or capstone project?
From the articles, it is evident that subsidies will continue, but for
electricity, not for LPG. That should be far less costly than current LPG
subsidies. Also, the comments by users of the the state provided
induction hotplates indicates that there will be a need for a non-electric
backup stove in most kitchens.
Ironically, if the unregulated price of LPG soars, households that do not
qualify for the electric subsidy, may be more inclined to use a biomass
stove (assuming a lower price for biomass) than those who receive the
subsidy.
Andrew Parker
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:14:47 -0600, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
> there is no need for anything to get ugly if urban households switched
> to biomass.
------------------------------
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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 36, Issue 23
**************************************
--
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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