[Stoves] Stove ID please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed

Tue Jan 1 20:30:16 CST 2013

Agh, but Gustavo, 

If only we could agree on whose god we can all agree to eh ? 

See you Soon, 

Richard Stanley

On Jan 1, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Inversiones Falcon wrote:

Dear Paul and Dean in january I will make a prototipe I don´t have the I have not the right dimensions but I´ll tried with 1 meter long by 50 cm wide and 75 cm height like the drawing I have made I don´t know if ever saw it, the problem that I see is as you all have noticed is that the heat transfer, as yu can see the combustion chamber generates a large amount of energy that is not used efficiently I think I can solve that problem by designing a special skirt for the pot if you heve goole sketchup you can see the drawing I just made and also I have a 2 and 3 pot plancha in one of my desings that I´m allready selling  the combustinon chamber is in the center of the sotove my challange was not the body of the stove it was the Plancha desing, we solve the problem now we have o good stove 80cm x 50 cm. I´m sending you 3 drawings one of the 2 pot stove, one of my 2 or 3 burner stove and for paul the drawing of my new charcoal stove with this model I have boiled 2 pounds of beens with only 12 ounces of charcoal.

let´s begin this new year working together and I hoping that God will gide us to do good things

Best for all of you

Gustavo Peña
El Salvador

From: Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed

Dear Paul,

I like the two pot stove concept (both pots on top of the stove, not sunken, to accommodate different pots) because by decreasing heat losses (insulating the flow path of the hot gases) and by increasing heat transfer (using appropriately sized channel gaps under the pots and up around the second pot) the one fire can boil water in two medium sized pots (5 liters in each) at about the same time (around 30 minutes). The problem with a stove that exposes only the pot bottom above the fire is that a small percentage of the heat from the hot gases and goes into the pot (Shall we estimate 20% or so?). That includes radiation and conduction.

If the fire is 4 Kw or so there's a lot of useful heat in the hot gasses at a fairly high temperature to pass by the bottom and sides of the second pot inside the skirt with an adjustable channel gap of 8mm or so. 

The problem is that we spoil the design by using a chimney unless we go to sunken pots. The chimney will take a disproportionate amount of hot gases away from the second pot unless the second pot is sunken. Then the hot gases can go up the channel gap inside the skirt before going down the outside of the skirt and exiting out the chimney. Like other chimney stoves the hot gases exiting should be below 200C as a goal: hot pots equal a colder chimney.

The added draft from a Rocket combustion chamber assists the hot gases to flow horizontally as does the draft created by the adjustable skirt around the second pot.

This design has surprisingly less PM which might be caused by additional scrubbing in the horizontal run?

All Best,

Dean

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
Crispin and Dale and all,

The topic is the 2-pot stove structure (from two commercial suppliers and for other sources).   And NOT the heat creation unit (which may or may not be built into the 2-pot stove structure).   

For clarification of this, lets be sure that Dale's wood-fire simulator (natural gas) is considered as equally appropriate as the heat source as would be the Rocket devices or the TLUD devices.   

Dale, this would be right up your alley.   Heat transfer.   

And this shows how good stove testing could be done by someone who is NOT a testing center.   And Dale should NOT be expected to do this work on his own time (unless he chooses to do so, with approval by his employer who has the equipment.).    

Do we (Stover community including all of the GACC Partners and GACC leadership) have a mechanism to get this task accomplished?   Perhaps some Stove Testing Center that gets a considerable chunk of money from GACC could sub-contract Dale (or other appropriate person) to get this job done for a relatively small cost.

By the way, how much financial support is the GACC actually putting into the hands of the Testing Centers?   and with what requirements?    I assume that these are "transparent" transactions already done or soon to be done or at least being planned.   

And how can people like us Stovers with this very specific request actually get this testing onto the agenda in general and/or at a specific testing site?   This is certainly "technology neutral" and eligible to be financially supported.

Imagine, if we had good data about these 2-pot "attachments", there could be some very beneficial results ready for anyone to implement.

And are there already results in the hands of Prakti and Envirofit and others that would be useful if known by others?  

Paul
Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  http://www.drtlud.com/
On 12/31/2012 1:16 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> Dear Dean
>  
> Thanks for that clarification.
>  
> Paul’s request for research into stove structures or types of structures is interesting in that stoves are not usually well classed as ‘structures’ but rather ‘models’ of some prototypical stove design.
>  
> Paul, I am not sure how you would design such research but it surely would have to include a well vetted evaluation method that gave results which could be used to interpret the structure as being the cause an improvement (or not).
>  
> Given the 4 major influences: user, fuel, cooking vessel and the stove, it would be worth spending some time to design the experiment which would show that the stove (or structure of the stove) was the contributing variable.
>  
> I suspect that Dale Andreatta’s wood fire simulator is one approach. If everyone recalls, he performed a number of heat transfer efficiency tests using multiple thermocouples and a standard gas-fuelled fire with a controlled gas flow rate.
>  
> Regards
> Crispin saying bye-bye to the Old Year
>  
>  
> 
> 
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