[Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
Alex English
english at kingston.net
Sun Jan 20 09:14:42 CST 2013
Hi Jonathan,
Its good to hear about the progress you have made. I can remember your
early missives to this list, was it a decade ago?
A few questions... about the stove;
At what moisture level (in the whole seed) do you see a drop off in
emissions performance when burned in the Jiko Safi?
Is it easy for the users to tell when the seeds are dry enough?
...about biofuel;
Part of the idea was to provide electricity or shaft power to
communities or business with a Lister engine on Jatropha oil.
I remember visiting Carl Bielenberg's workshop where he was doing the
testing.
Any success stories there or is diesel always cheaper without a carbon
consideration?
Alex
On 20/01/2013 9:23 AM, Jonathan Otto wrote:
> Hey Richard,
>
> Not sure why you feel my briquetting education has been neglected,
> since that kind of fuel is not mentioned in any of my postings; but
> I certainly subscribe to Dean's comment: we all have a lot to learn
> about such alternative fuels. I would add: and the stoves that burn
> them in a truly clean way. Which brings up the question: if a
> briquette or pellet is burned in an open charcoal brazier, do we have
> a clean energy source? To put in another way, there are no 'clean' or
> 'dirty' fuels; it's combination of fuel and stove that must be
> evaluated together for emissions and other performance parameters.
>
> My densified fuels question to Otto the Senior or anyone else who can
> enlighten me concerning the logic of pelletizing Jatropha presscake.
> If farmers grow their own energy-dense, uniform-sized fuel,
> i.e., whole Jatropha seed, why complicate matters by processing that
> ready-to-use fuel into another fuel? No matter how efficient the
> pelletizing process, it must require time and energy. Why not burn
> these seeds directly in a micro gasifier stove, such as our jiko safi?
>
> Let me try to head off some likely comments. I know that there are
> companies in many African and Asian countries engaged in commercial
> scale production of Jatropha (and other biofuel crops) for export
> of biodeisel. Land grabbing and other nefarious activities of some of
> these players are obscene, as once again the global north exploits
> tropical countries for cheap/free land and cheap labor to meet its
> own needs.
>
> Yes, those Jatropha oil export ventures produce presscake as a
> by-product which they pelletize and market for fuel. And yes, some
> smaller operations in a few countries like Uganda, are trying to make
> a go of producing Jatropha-based biofuels for local and regional
> energy markets. But for all the publicity, most of it appropriately
> negative, in the 'food vs. fuel' analysis, there's a lot more to
> Jatropha than current attempts to put the oil in European cars and jet
> engines.
>
> Far apart from all these recent commercial Jatropha ventures, many
> of which are unprofitable for reasons we can discuss another time if
> anyone's interested, are many millions of farmers in over 110
> countries who use Jatropha as a living hedge and for medicianl uses.
> Seems it's grown in every frost-free area of the world. I've found it
> from Cuba -- it's native to the neo-tropics -- to Mali, which has
> thousands of kilometers of hedges, to Bhutan where villagers were
> obliged to pay a Jatropha tax to monks for lighting in floating wick
> lamps.
>
> My guess is that over 99% of all Jatropha seed fall to the ground and
> rot, unused. (One study in a district of Tanzania where Jatropha seed
> is a traded commodity found that only 6% of seed is harvested.) As we
> all search for renewable, sustainably harvested biomass to fuel our
> favorite stoves, can we afford to overlook seeds of this ubiquitous,
> multi-use species?
>
> The point of importuning my stove list colleagues on a fine Sunday
> morning is to interest other stove makers to look at Jatropha and
> other energy-rich seeds as a category of fuel worth consideration for
> new stove designs. We are modestly pleased with the performance of
> the jiko safi, but we also know that some of you with far deeper
> understanding of gasification and far more experience in stove design
> could produce a much better model. Anyone want to take up this challenge?
>
> Over to you,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: rstanley at legacyfound.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:46:53 -0600
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear Ottos,
> Seems you both need training in briquettemaking . Jon you know where
> to go in nchi yeti but Otto, where are you based? Seriously, the
> blends you are finding smelly smokey etc suggests that you get in
> touch with any of hundreds of others who can train you.
> Richard Stanley
> Monte Rico,
> Guatemala
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 18:10, Otto Formo <terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Josh and Jonathan (Otto),
>
> Yes, we are talking about the presscake of Jatropha and it was
> processed into pellets localy in Zambia, quite easily and with
> "simple" tools - (no waste of energy)
>
> We had the same experience as your colleagues using briquettes
> made out of ricehusks and sawdust.
> They even started to glow like charcoal early in the gasification
> process and produced smoky and smouldery combustion.
>
> Thast why we prefer to use pellets of best possible quality.
>
> I hope you are correct about the gasification of jatropha pellets
> will destroy the phorbol esters and other problematic compounds
> instead of emitting them.
> Iam a bit worried about the forced draft units, while they seems
> to blow some parts of the ash and gases into the open air or room.
>
> May be the char from Jatropha could have a pestecide effect as well?
>
> Otto
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:23:35 -0500
> From: yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com
> <mailto:yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Otto - FYI jatropha presscake (the mealy material left over once
> oil has been pressed out of the seeds) can be directly pelletized
> without further processing. It's pretty easy to pelletize, even
> with a small, cheaper (e.g. benchtop) pellet press. The mealy
> presscake still contains some of the oil (think coffee grounds)
> and it pelletizes well without worry over moisture content or
> having to use a binder.
>
> The pellets burn in a TLUD similar to wood or other pellets, at
> least by visual observation and temperature recording. I have
> colleagues that have tried to make cooking briquettes with
> jatropha seedcake and had a very smoky, smouldery combustion. I
> believe there are concerns of some potentially toxic emissions
> (phorbol esters, other compounds?). I have not tested the
> emissions from TLUD charring jatropha pellets, but there was no
> visible smoke and the gasifier seemed to operate fine as it does
> with other types of pellets. It would be interesting to know if
> firing jatropha pellets in a TLUD destroys the phorbol esters and
> other problematic compounds instead of emitting them.
>
> I first tried to char un-pelletized jatropha seedcake in the TLUD
> - because it is mealy like coffee grounds no draft could get
> through and it was a total fail - lots of smoke poured out! This
> brought the fire department to our Colorado backyard during a fire
> ban. Whoops.
>
> Also FYI char made from TLUD jatropha pellets performed similar
> for herbicide uptake from simulated natural water as chars made in
> the same way from pine pellets, bagasse pellets, and bamboo pieces.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Otto
> <ottojonathan at hotmail.com <mailto:ottojonathan at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Otto,
>
> Whole Jatropha seeds can be picked from hedges on-farm and
> used directly in our jiko safi gasification stove without any
> further effort (except maybe for some sun drying if
> harvested during a damp season) ... the most decentralized,
> efficient sustainable fuel system I can imagine.
>
> Sure, urban jiko safi users will need to buy their fuel seeds,
> so a commercial system for transport and retail sale of seed
> will be needed eventually, likely mimicking some aspects of
> the charcoal trade. But it's just whole, unprocessed seed.
>
> Concerning pelletized Jatropha fuel, I would like to
> understand the advantages you find in going through the costs
> and effort (including energy losses) of processing seeds to
> expel the oil, then probably milling the press cake and shells
> (?) to uniform size/texture, then extruding or otherwise
> forming the mixture into pellets, and finally distribute the
> fuel, some of which will go back to the same farmers that grew
> the Jatropha seed in the first place?
>
> I know there are technical advantages to gasification of
> uniform-sized pellets, but it seems to me that round or ovoid
> shaped seeds like Jatropha, castor (I know, more poisons!),
> shea or croton megalocarpus provide this same advantage,
> without going through the pelletization process.What am I missing?
>
> Otto, the minor
>
> P.S. It's too late for me to retire 'on time'
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:23:37 +0100
>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Jonathan,
>
> We have got some samples of pelletized jatropha shells and
> seeds from Zambia, after the oil has been extracted and we
> feel that is the way forward.
>
> We will update you on the progress, so you will be albe to
> retire "on time".................:)
> We are not so worried about PM in natural draft gasifiers, but
> thanks for the concern.
>
> Otto........................
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: ottojonathan at hotmail.com <mailto:ottojonathan at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:03:35 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Otto-
>
> You 'would guess' wrong.
>
> 'We should be very careful advising people' about such
> unsupported conclusions.
>
> The challenges of gasifying oils found in seeds, notably the
> oils of Jatropha seed, in a cookstove are far different
> from working with most pellets formulations.
>
> I keenly look forward to news of your all-fuel stoves that
> will handle J seeds, and the results of your tests. I
> sincerely hope you develop this soon, so I can finally retire
> in peace.
>
> Oh, and when you do tests, please include particulates in your
> emissions testing, so we can finally end all this hand
> wringing about 'these types of fuel'.
>
> >From the cheeky other Otto,
>
> Jonathan
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:23:48 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear stovers,
>
> I would guess that "any" gasifier will burn jatropha seeds or
> pellets cleanly and efficient, as long as the moisture content
> are less than 10%.
>
> We have in the pipeline to test a new design of natural draft
> gasifiers, using jatropha seeds and pellets, for emmissions
> and toxcic fumes.
>
> We should be very carefull adviceing people using these types
> of fuel, before it has been carefully tested by independent
> institutions.
>
> Have a nice weekend.
>
> Otto (not the famous one..........:)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: crispinpigott at gmail.com <mailto:crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:19:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear Jonathan
>
> I am interested in the general layout and dimensions of a
> stove that will burn the seeds well. Are you sharing at this
> time anything regarding the design?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
> ++++++++
>
> Dear Joyce and stovers all,
>
> My regrets for not responding to this request 6 months ago.
> I admit that it got lost in my messy inbox which I have
> now reduced from 6000 messages to a mere 2400, and in the
> process uncovered Joyce's email.
>
> Burning Jatropha seeds whole or in briquettes in open cooking
> arrangements is a bad idea. It produces a smoky, smelly fire
> and probably exposes cooks to toxic emissions. I even
> question burning Jatropha oil in lamps in enclosed areas for
> the same reason. Maybe others know of emissions studies.
> [snip]
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
> list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> to UNSUBSCRIBE or
> Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
> web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
> list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> to UNSUBSCRIBE or
> Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
> web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
> list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> to UNSUBSCRIBE or
> Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
> web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
> list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> to UNSUBSCRIBE or
> Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
> web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
> web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Josh Kearns
> PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering
> University of Colorado-Boulder
> Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University
>
> Director of Science
> Aqueous Solutions
> www.aqsolutions.org <http://www.aqsolutions.org/>
>
> Mobile: 720 989 3959begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 720 989
> 3959end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> Skype: joshkearns
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
> list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change
> your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
> site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
> site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to
> Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
> Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
> site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130120/396ab446/attachment.html>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list