[Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? -- and possible project
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Sun Jan 20 17:00:10 CST 2013
Dear Otto,
Sounds like you have a formula for those pellets. Maybe others can
replicate it. (I was not making pellets, I just had contact with the
press-cake). Or is it possible to get any of those pellets?
How can we proceed with this?
Paul
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 1/20/2013 3:47 PM, Otto Formo wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I dont know to much about the presscake of Jatropha from Mosambique or
> Uganda, but the pellets we were introduced to in Zambia, does not
> remind me about any of the discription given by Paul.
> The pellets are dry and easy to handle and far from sticky.
>
> May be we have discovered the "secret" combination .................:)
>
> Have any of you considered to mix it with sawdust, a well known metode
> to "control" oil spill, or any other suitable biomass?
>
> Otto
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:25:04 -0600
> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> CC: nathan at grotontimberworks.com; davidpotto at gmail.com;
> wastemin1 at verizon.net; solarbobky at yahoo.com; dcovert at u.washington.edu
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? -- and possible project
>
> Jonathan,
>
> You wrote:
>
> we too have had the experience of getting smoke and incomplete
> gasification from very dry seed that was stored too long in arid
> conditions.
>
> I suspect you meant to say "incomplete combustion of the gases". I
> suspect that your very dry fuel did get pyrolyzed all the way to
> charcoal. (and I suspect that you are not referring to the
> gasification of the char, which should not be allowed to occur inside
> of TLUD stoves because the high heat of char-gasification is
> detrimental to the metal of the stoves.).
>
> There seem to be enough Jatropha seeds for both pressing them for oil
> AND for using some directly as seed-fuels. Advantages of seed fuels
> include:
> 1. Already packaged with a natural protective coating (seed coat, not
> referring to the outer husk/shell)
> a. to prevent entry of water (until conditions exist for
> sprouting). Moisture content (MC) is reasonably consistent in intact
> seeds if you give them a little protection from the rain.
> b. clean to the touch when handling the fuel. They
> scoop well, and make no dust.
> c. giving curved sides that allow passage of the needed
> Up-Draft primary air in TLUDs
> d. (minor negative) prevent quick ignition, so we solve
> that by breaking up a few seeds to be at the top for ignition. But
> no need to crack them all.
>
> 2. Packed with energy in the form of carbohydrates (and other "stuff"
> like oils that burn).
> a. That is why we do not burn most seeds, because they
> have value as food.
> b. But Jatropha seeds are inedible, so we can burn them.
> c. The oils can be vaporized by the heat, meaning the
> pyrolysis does not occur for the oils.
> d. Therefore, per unit of energy ultimately in the
> combustion flame, there is LESS charcoal produced per unit of weight
> than is the case of wood and maize cobs, etc.
>
> 3. And specifically Jatropha seeds are about the right size for
> collection, storage, handling, air passage. And do not forget that
> the outer husk/hull can also be collected and used as fuel.
>
> 4. About the press-cake after oil extraction. What I have seen
> (Mozambique and Uganda) does not appeal much to me as a fuel. It
> needs further handling, is oily, and oil that does not dry remains
> slippery and therefore is not naturally great for making pellets or
> briquettes stick together. IF the press cake is being produced, then
> certainly consider using it as a fuel. But do not expect it to be
> easy or clean or even cheap. Certainly not as inexpensive as the
> intact seeds.
>
> Again, I will sing the praises of Jet City Stoveworks (Otto brothers
> Jon and David and Prof. David Covert) and of Nathan Puffer (Vermont,
> not NH) for their work with whole Jatropha seeds in TLUD-ND (Jiko
> Safi) and TLUD-FA stoves, respectively. And also Hugh McLaughlin who
> has done experimental work with oil seeds as fuels in TLUDS (used
> sunflower seeds as a substitute).
>
> We hope to see the Jiko Safi at ETHOS next week. Maybe there will be
> sufficient interest and attendance that we can build with and upon the
> Safi work.
>
> Paul
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> Skype: paultlud Phone:+1-309-452-7072 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +1-309-452-7072 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
> On 1/20/2013 12:16 PM, Jonathan Otto wrote:
>
> Alex,
>
> You and Ron Larson have the memory of an elephant. Yes, I did make
> early postings to this list seeking help as we tried to develop
> a stove to burn liquid Jatropha oil many years ago. As our German
> colleagues at Siemens demonstrated over sevearl years of
> interesting failures, a cheap, easy-to-maintain stove fueled
> by plant oils is very difficult or maybe impossible. Then, for our
> efforts in Tanzania, Paul Anderson came along, preaching the
> gospel of TLUD, and we realized that extracting J oil as a liquid
> fuel was both unnecessary and inappropriate, when we can gasify
> these oils from within the seed.
>
> Moisture level. We've not done any systematic testing of seed
> moisture levels, but it's rarely an issue since people only
> harvest J seeds when they're completely dry on the vine. Some sun
> drying helps if they get wet. Going back to a comment Dean made
> recently about fuel being too dry to gasify well, we too have had
> the experience of getting smoke and incomplete gasification from
> very dry seed that was stored too long in arid conditions. We
> need more field experience to say anything more useful about this.
>
> Carl Beilenberg and J oil for electrical generation. I have
> fallen out of touch with Carl in recent years, so I don't know
> what my fellow Vermonter is up to these days, but you can bet it's
> highly inventive. I do know that he used to run his diesel VW on
> J oil -- quite a trick for such a viscous fuel in our northern
> climate. Since J seed is still not a traded commodity in most
> places, the economics of using it as fuel -- solid or liquid --
> can't be definitively determined, or I should say, will be highly
> site-specific. The on-farm price range for J seed, excepting
> ridiculous spikes that occurred during the Jatropha silly period
> of the biofuel bubble after 2005, runs from around US$0.12 to
> $0.25 per-kilo in my experience. Depending on efficiency of
> extraction methods, quality of seed, etc., one can get 1 liter
> from 3.5 kg - 5 kg of seed. Of course, feedstock is only one part
> of the cost equation.
>
> Thanks for yoiur interest,
>
> Jonathan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:14:42 -0500
> From: english at kingston.net <mailto:english at kingston.net>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Hi Jonathan,
> Its good to hear about the progress you have made. I can remember
> your early missives to this list, was it a decade ago?
> A few questions... about the stove;
>
> At what moisture level (in the whole seed) do you see a drop off
> in emissions performance when burned in the Jiko Safi?
> Is it easy for the users to tell when the seeds are dry enough?
>
> ...about biofuel;
> Part of the idea was to provide electricity or shaft power to
> communities or business with a Lister engine on Jatropha oil.
> I remember visiting Carl Bielenberg's workshop where he was doing
> the testing.
> Any success stories there or is diesel always cheaper without a
> carbon consideration?
>
> Alex
>
>
> On 20/01/2013 9:23 AM, Jonathan Otto wrote:
>
> Hey Richard,
>
> Not sure why you feel my briquetting education has been
> neglected, since that kind of fuel is not mentioned in any of
> my postings; but I certainly subscribe to Dean's comment: we
> all have a lot to learn about such alternative fuels. I would
> add: and the stoves that burn them in a truly clean
> way. Which brings up the question: if a briquette or
> pellet is burned in an open charcoal brazier, do we have a
> clean energy source? To put in another way, there are no
> 'clean' or 'dirty' fuels; it's combination of fuel and stove
> that must be evaluated together for emissions and other
> performance parameters.
>
> My densified fuels question to Otto the Senior or anyone else
> who can enlighten me concerning the logic of pelletizing
> Jatropha presscake. If farmers grow their
> own energy-dense, uniform-sized fuel, i.e., whole Jatropha
> seed, why complicate matters by processing that ready-to-use
> fuel into another fuel? No matter how efficient the
> pelletizing process, it must require time and energy. Why not
> burn these seeds directly in a micro gasifier stove, such as
> our jiko safi?
>
> Let me try to head off some likely comments. I know that there
> are companies in many African and Asian countries engaged in
> commercial scale production of Jatropha (and other biofuel
> crops) for export of biodeisel. Land grabbing and other
> nefarious activities of some of these players are obscene, as
> once again the global north exploits tropical countries for
> cheap/free land and cheap labor to meet its own needs.
>
> Yes, those Jatropha oil export ventures produce presscake as a
> by-product which they pelletize and market for fuel. And yes,
> some smaller operations in a few countries like Uganda, are
> trying to make a go of producing Jatropha-based biofuels for
> local and regional energy markets. But for all the publicity,
> most of it appropriately negative, in the 'food vs. fuel'
> analysis, there's a lot more to Jatropha than current attempts
> to put the oil in European cars and jet engines.
>
> Far apart from all these recent commercial Jatropha ventures,
> many of which are unprofitable for reasons we can discuss
> another time if anyone's interested, are many millions of
> farmers in over 110 countries who use Jatropha as a living
> hedge and for medicianl uses. Seems it's grown in every
> frost-free area of the world. I've found it from Cuba --
> it's native to the neo-tropics -- to Mali, which has thousands
> of kilometers of hedges, to Bhutan where villagers were
> obliged to pay a Jatropha tax to monks for lighting in
> floating wick lamps.
>
> My guess is that over 99% of all Jatropha seed fall to the
> ground and rot, unused. (One study in a district of Tanzania
> where Jatropha seed is a traded commodity found that only 6%
> of seed is harvested.) As we all search for renewable,
> sustainably harvested biomass to fuel our favorite stoves, can
> we afford to overlook seeds of this ubiquitous, multi-use
> species?
>
> The point of importuning my stove list colleagues on a fine
> Sunday morning is to interest other stove makers to look at
> Jatropha and other energy-rich seeds as a category of
> fuel worth consideration for new stove designs. We are
> modestly pleased with the performance of the jiko safi, but we
> also know that some of you with far deeper understanding of
> gasification and far more experience in stove design could
> produce a much better model. Anyone want to take up this
> challenge?
>
> Over to you,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: rstanley at legacyfound.org <mailto:rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:46:53 -0600
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear Ottos,
> Seems you both need training in briquettemaking . Jon you know
> where to go in nchi yeti but Otto, where are you based?
> Seriously, the blends you are finding smelly smokey etc
> suggests that you get in touch with any of hundreds of others
> who can train you.
> Richard Stanley
> Monte Rico,
> Guatemala
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 18:10, Otto Formo
> <terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Josh and Jonathan (Otto),
>
> Yes, we are talking about the presscake of Jatropha and it
> was processed into pellets localy in Zambia, quite easily
> and with "simple" tools - (no waste of energy)
>
> We had the same experience as your colleagues using
> briquettes made out of ricehusks and sawdust.
> They even started to glow like charcoal early in the
> gasification process and produced smoky and smouldery
> combustion.
>
> Thast why we prefer to use pellets of best possible quality.
>
> I hope you are correct about the gasification of jatropha
> pellets will destroy the phorbol esters and other
> problematic compounds instead of emitting them.
> Iam a bit worried about the forced draft units, while they
> seems to blow some parts of the ash and gases into the
> open air or room.
>
> May be the char from Jatropha could have a pestecide
> effect as well?
>
> Otto
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:23:35 -0500
> From: yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com
> <mailto:yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Otto - FYI jatropha presscake (the mealy material left
> over once oil has been pressed out of the seeds) can be
> directly pelletized without further processing. It's
> pretty easy to pelletize, even with a small, cheaper (e.g.
> benchtop) pellet press. The mealy presscake still contains
> some of the oil (think coffee grounds) and it pelletizes
> well without worry over moisture content or having to use
> a binder.
>
> The pellets burn in a TLUD similar to wood or other
> pellets, at least by visual observation and temperature
> recording. I have colleagues that have tried to make
> cooking briquettes with jatropha seedcake and had a very
> smoky, smouldery combustion. I believe there are concerns
> of some potentially toxic emissions (phorbol esters, other
> compounds?). I have not tested the emissions from TLUD
> charring jatropha pellets, but there was no visible smoke
> and the gasifier seemed to operate fine as it does with
> other types of pellets. It would be interesting to know if
> firing jatropha pellets in a TLUD destroys the phorbol
> esters and other problematic compounds instead of emitting
> them.
>
> I first tried to char un-pelletized jatropha seedcake in
> the TLUD - because it is mealy like coffee grounds no
> draft could get through and it was a total fail - lots of
> smoke poured out! This brought the fire department to our
> Colorado backyard during a fire ban. Whoops.
>
> Also FYI char made from TLUD jatropha pellets performed
> similar for herbicide uptake from simulated natural water
> as chars made in the same way from pine pellets, bagasse
> pellets, and bamboo pieces.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Otto
> <ottojonathan at hotmail.com
> <mailto:ottojonathan at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Otto,
>
> Whole Jatropha seeds can be picked from hedges on-farm
> and used directly in our jiko safi gasification stove
> without any further effort (except maybe for some sun
> drying if harvested during a damp season) ... the most
> decentralized, efficient sustainable fuel system I can
> imagine.
>
> Sure, urban jiko safi users will need to buy their
> fuel seeds, so a commercial system for transport and
> retail sale of seed will be needed eventually, likely
> mimicking some aspects of the charcoal trade. But it's
> just whole, unprocessed seed.
>
> Concerning pelletized Jatropha fuel, I would like to
> understand the advantages you find in going through
> the costs and effort (including energy losses) of
> processing seeds to expel the oil, then probably
> milling the press cake and shells (?) to uniform
> size/texture, then extruding or otherwise forming the
> mixture into pellets, and finally distribute the fuel,
> some of which will go back to the same farmers that
> grew the Jatropha seed in the first place?
>
> I know there are technical advantages to gasification
> of uniform-sized pellets, but it seems to me that
> round or ovoid shaped seeds like Jatropha, castor (I
> know, more poisons!), shea or croton megalocarpus
> provide this same advantage, without going through the
> pelletization process.What am I missing?
>
> Otto, the minor
>
> P.S. It's too late for me to retire 'on time'
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:23:37 +0100
>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Jonathan,
>
> We have got some samples of pelletized jatropha shells
> and seeds from Zambia, after the oil has been
> extracted and we feel that is the way forward.
>
> We will update you on the progress, so you will be
> albe to retire "on time".................:)
> We are not so worried about PM in natural draft
> gasifiers, but thanks for the concern.
>
> Otto........................
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: ottojonathan at hotmail.com
> <mailto:ottojonathan at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:03:35 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Otto-
>
> You 'would guess' wrong.
>
> 'We should be very careful advising people' about such
> unsupported conclusions.
>
> The challenges of gasifying oils found in
> seeds, notably the oils of Jatropha seed, in a
> cookstove are far different from working with
> most pellets formulations.
>
> I keenly look forward to news of your all-fuel stoves
> that will handle J seeds, and the results of your
> tests. I sincerely hope you develop this soon, so I
> can finally retire in peace.
>
> Oh, and when you do tests, please include particulates
> in your emissions testing, so we can finally end all
> this hand wringing about 'these types of fuel'.
>
> >From the cheeky other Otto,
>
> Jonathan
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: terra-matricula at hotmail.com
> <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:23:48 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear stovers,
>
> I would guess that "any" gasifier will burn jatropha
> seeds or pellets cleanly and efficient, as long as the
> moisture content are less than 10%.
>
> We have in the pipeline to test a new design of
> natural draft gasifiers, using jatropha seeds and
> pellets, for emmissions and toxcic fumes.
>
> We should be very carefull adviceing people using
> these types of fuel, before it has been carefully
> tested by independent institutions.
>
> Have a nice weekend.
>
> Otto (not the famous one..........:)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
> <mailto:crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:19:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?
>
> Dear Jonathan
>
> I am interested in the general layout and dimensions
> of a stove that will burn the seeds well. Are you
> sharing at this time anything regarding the design?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
> ++++++++
>
> Dear Joyce and stovers all,
>
> My regrets for not responding to this request 6 months
> ago. I admit that it got lost in my messy inbox
> which I have now reduced from 6000 messages to a mere
> 2400, and in the process uncovered Joyce's email.
>
> Burning Jatropha seeds whole or in briquettes in open
> cooking arrangements is a bad idea. It produces a
> smoky, smelly fire and probably exposes cooks to toxic
> emissions. I even question burning Jatropha oil in
> lamps in enclosed areas for the same reason. Maybe
> others know of emissions studies.
> [snip]
>
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>
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