[Stoves] wheat husk pellets

Wed Jun 12 20:25:12 CDT 2013

See comments below.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:05 AM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:

> Paul  (cc Alex)
>
>     This is to respond to your question:
>
>       * Do you have any other other alternative to the use of fossil
> fuels?
>
> *
> Here are three alternatives,  from my perspective:
>    a.  Continued growth of the electrical system.  Electricity is a great
> way to cook.   As we decide to get off fossil-fueled electricity, biomass
> will be used for backup to wind and solar.  As we realize the need to get
> back to 350 ppm CO2, then the best biomass option is with biochar - Backup
> with CHP in 10 -20 MW scale, not the GW scale assumed for BECCS.
>

I agree fully. If electricity is produced without making use of fossil
fuels or nuclear energy, then this makes sense.

>     b.  Natural gas for cooking will be replaced slowly by pyrolysis gas
> (and electricity).  City gas (from biomass) came before natural gas.
>

Yes, this is the option that I am focusing on: syngas replacing fossil fuel
gas. This is a simple and inexpensive option that we can control and
execute,

>     c.   Liquid fuels can also come from pyrolysis with char co-product
> when we decide we need to get to 350  ppm.  Cooking can be that way as well.
>

Yes, we can produce methanol and ethanol from syngas, and these liquid
fuels can be used for cooking. I am working with a large company that sells
steel mills. We want to chip invasive plants, dry them thermophilically
down to 23% moisture under a compost fleece, dry them further in large
silo's, and pyrolyze/gasify them in the same silos to make syngas, make
methanol from the syngas, and sell biochar as a soil amendment. Imagine the
huge amount of mesquite, Chinese Tallow and Juniper available just in the
state of Texas.

>
>     Half the world can still rely on TLUD designs for cooking.  Not for
> most on this list, including Alex and I, because we can afford to keep what
> we now use.
>

Keep what you are using, but use much less of these conventional devices. I
think that there is definitely a place for small TLUDs running on pellets
in modern kitchens. I have heard this argument many times: *I can afford
fossil fuels so what's the big deal*? Our affluence should not provide us
an excuse to burn fossil fuels.

> But for half the world, a TLUD could be the cheapest - and so you need to
> keep developing your type.  That's a big market.   One caution - solar
> cooking for some meals will creep in - because it will be the cheapest.
>

Yes, but solar cookers are not reliable each and every day.

Thanks.
Paul Olivier

>
>     Note that all four approaches involve char-making - since I assume an
> eventual recognition both that all fossil fuels must go and also that we
> need 350 or lower.
>
>    No doubt Alex agrees with all this.   Your reaction?
>
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Paul Olivier" <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>
> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:28:57 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets
>
>
> Alex,
>
> You say: *Visions of pyrolysis stoves in the kitchens of North America
> are borderline male fantasy. *Be realistic. Do you have any other other
> alternative to the use of fossil fuels? Such a double standard: we use
> fossil fuels to cook our meals and we expect poor people to use biomass
> fuels.
> Yes, you can start with the patio and then later move indoors as you
> acquire more skill in operating the unit. Also, at this early stage in the
> evolution of the technology, I would not recommend doing away with your gas
> stove. Leave it there, but try to use your biomass stove as much as
> possible.
> Pellets are available at so many retail outlets in the USA, and they are
> so easy to handle. I think that there are many households along the West
> coast who would be happy to break away from the stranglehold of Big Oil.
>
> In my kitchen I have not yet set up a hood and fan. So I will operate the
> pellet gasifier in my living room on a small coffee table. All that I have
> to do is to open up the two big windows in the living room. The problem
> that I have had all along was dealing with loose rice hulls. I have no
> place to store a large sack of rice hulls in my house, and I dislike having
> to load them into the reactor: they are so dusty and dirty. With pellets
> this problem is solved.
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Alex English <english at kingston.net>wrote:
>
>> All Pauls and all,
>>
>> Interesting subject title. Having grown,combined,ground,sifted wheat and
>> burned wheat 'berries" and wheat short blended pellets at times over the
>> past 35 years, this is the first time I have heard the term 'wheat husk'.
>> My failure to separate husk from chaff.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wheat_middlings<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_middlings>
>>
>> We can buy into energy conspiracies but they only go so far. Having
>> watched greenhouse boiler fuel gyrations during energy price spikes, I can
>> pull my head out of the oven and tell you that cleaning and maintaining a
>> 'natural' gas fired boiler is as close to the 'aspirational' desk job as a
>> farmer gets. A boiler fired with oat-hull/wheat-short blended pellets is
>> continueally coated with sticky ash. It all makes work for the working-man
>> to do, or avoid doing. Opposite ends of a fuel spectrum with labor and
>> equipment  costs playing a huge role in the decision. Where is that
>> spreadsheet?
>>
>> There are quite a few pellet mills experiments around and most are having
>> significant difficulties with ag residues and energy crops. Youtube videos
>> only go so far, but its early days, or decades.
>>
>>
>> Visions of pyrolysis stoves in the kitchens of North America are
>> borderline male fantasy. Try the patio dadios first. That will be a tough
>> enough sell. Not enough smoke flavor.
>>
>> A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's pyrolysis for?
>>
>> "That's nice, now take it outside dear, I have a meal to prepare, and
>> also the insurance company said no" :)
>>
>>
>> But your rice hull stove still seems like a pretty good niche. At least
>> from a distance.
>>
>> Alex in Wonderfulland.
>> A practitioner of the combustion arts and letters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/06/2013 10:37 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Otto, you are right.
>>>
>>> Big Oil receives subsides from the US government. Its lobbying effort is
>>> colossal. It has succeeded in convincing most of us that it has all the
>>> answers. The infrastructure it has set up is vigilantly supported by the US
>>> military. In our design of stoves, we should do everything we can to make
>>> sure that we are not taken in by their lies. As Shell Oil, says in an
>>> advertisement: "We at Shell believe that the world should have a broader
>>> mix of energies". And then they point to natural gas.
>>>
>>> Paul Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.**org <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.**org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_**
>> lists.bioenergylists.org<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.**org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>

-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130613/358d140e/attachment.html>