[Stoves] ri8ce husk insulation---
mtrevor at ntamar.net
mtrevor at ntamar.net
Fri Jun 14 03:15:50 CDT 2013
DOES NOT SETTLE.
Vantage number one said the Elephant sitting on the banks of the great Grey Greasy Limpopo River..
I was thinking could they be extruded into board/bats with some kind of binder as well. I suspect the volumous piles
of rice hull are shortly going to be some thing of a treasure.: Insulation? Ternmite resistant press board? Fuel?
Vantage number ??? say the elephant as he sneeze3d a pile into the river.
Michael, Marshall Islands
> The R-value per inch on rice hulls was 3.
> And unlike cellulose insulation, if properly installed, they do not settle over time.
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/ASTM/114941Report.pdf
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/ASTM/astm1.pdf
> I even built what was called a Rice Hull House:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/The-Rice-Hull-House2.pdf
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Dear Paul
> >
> > Very interesting!!
> >
> > Sawdust has an "R-Factor" of about 2 BTU-hr/ft^2- degF-inch. Would you recall the R-Factor for Rice Hulls?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > FROM: Paul Olivier
> >
> > TO: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >
> >
> > SENT: Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:22 PM
> > SUBJECT: Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk pellets
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Ten years ago I had worked a Carl Simpson of Ricelandin Arkansas on the idea of using rice hulls as insulation. We found out that untreated rice hulls make an excellent insulation, and unlike cellulose insulation, chemicals do not have to be added to rice hulls to make them fire and fungi resistant. Untreated rice hulls passed all ASTM tests for insulation materials. Carl told me of piles of rice hulls that had been in place outdoors for over 20 years. Rice hulls do not decompose very easily. I do not know much about wheat hulls.
> >
> > Paul Olivier
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Fair enough. Wheat byproducts that I have worked with are usually either a granular or powdery meal. I don´t know how much hulls would break down biologically. Proabbly not much since they are used as a bulking agent for compost. __
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > Tom__
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > FROM: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] ON BEHALF OF Legacy Mail
> > > SENT: Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:18 PM
> > >
> > > TO: Discussion of biomass cookingstoves
> > > CC: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > >
> > >
> > > SUBJECT: Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDswas Re: wheat husk pellets__
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom, Paul,__
> > >
> > >
> > > the problem with running a fiberbound residue through, especially, an augur driven meat mincer type die, is that the process itself tends to shear the very fibers that do the binding. 1" dia x 1 long sausages are about as small as you can go from our experience .__
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard__
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone__
> > >
> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at21:07, "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:__
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul,__
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > The hulls would have to be incorporated into a meal that when dried would form into a ball or pellet shape by using something like a meat grinder. It might be possible to "ret" them with the coffee skins a la Bryant/Legacy. Then you would have something to form. I have always experienced a large quantity of fines with rice husks and straw. You could tie those up by combining them in a meal but you need something fibrous to hold them together. __
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > Think of other uses for composted rice husks. I know someone who has made thousands of cubic yards of peat substitute by composting rice husks. So it is clearly possible to biologically "process" the husks to a beneficial form. Once you have composted the hulls why use them as fuel? They could be better as a soil amendment. The composting should generate biological binders that would give you a choice of densification methods. Pressing hulls through a metal die will just wear out the die. Probably not the first choice. I think there is a form of fuel or soil amendment that could be created. Meanwhile keep the day job and perfect your rice husk TLUD __
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > Tom __
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > FROM: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] ON BEHALF OF Paul Olivier
> > > SENT: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:38PM
> > > TO: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > > SUBJECT:Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk pellets__
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > Tom's explanation still leaves me with a few questions.__
> > >
> > > Would the rice hull have to be ground into a powder to go through a meat grinder?__
> > >
> > > It takes a lot of energy and maintenance to grind up rice hulls.__
> > >
> > > With a conventional pellet machine, rice hulls do not have to be ground up.__
> > >
> > >
> > > What binder would be used with rice hulls?__
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > > Paul__
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:__
> > >
> > > Stovers,
> > >
> > > Tom gave a good explanation. Hismessage is now in the Listserv Archives. But how can such content be made more available for future readers?__
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > Paul S.Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > > Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > > Website: www.drtlud.com__
> > >
> > > On 6/12/2013 4:24 AM, Tom Miles wrote:__
> > >
> > > Andrew,
> > >
> > > Goodexplanation.
> > >
> > > Think of two methods of forming fuels. One requireshigh heat and pressure.
> > > The other requires water and biological orchemical degradation.
> > >
> > > Heat, pressure and some moisture (10% MC) arerequired for densification to
> > > pellets, briquettes or fire logs. A drybiomass is finely ground and pressed
> > > through a metal die. There are twoprincipal binding mechanisms. In one,
> > > cellulose fibers pressed togetherwith heat removes excess water and the
> > > fibers are bonded to each otherthrough what is called paper bonding, or
> > > hydrogen bonding. It is likewetting two pieces of paper and letting them
> > > dry out. They aredifficult to pull apart. This is a chemical bond that is a
> > > majorbonding mechanism for most densification. When you break the pellet or
> > > briquette it falls apart rather than snaps.
> > > A secondmechanism is lignin plastic flow, as Andrew describes below. The
> > > ligninand part of the celluloses actually plasticize and flow. Under high
> > > power magnification with a scanning electron microscope a portionof the
> > > wood looks like solid plastic with no identifiable fibers. Thesepellets
> > > snap when you break them.
> > >
> > > Both mechanisms are at play ina densifier. Together these mechanisms make a
> > > durable pellet orbriquette. As Andrew points out they require power and an
> > > extrusion process like a pellet mill.
> > >
> > > A third mechanism thatis used with mechanical densifiers is adding chemical
> > > binders,starches, or even expanding clays. These were employed in the
> > > older,low power cubers and briquetters to make animal feed. Molasses based
> > > binders were added to help stick hay together in cubes and to addnitrogen
> > > (protein) etc. They often added 30% to the cost of the feed.We used sodium
> > > hydroxide to hydrolyze straw to make it pliable formaking cubes. It had the
> > > advantage of making the straw more digestablefor the animals. This was fine
> > > for using low quality feeds like strawin times of feed shortage but too
> > > expensive when feed pricesfell.
> > >
> > > Wet methods of forming fuels are like the method described byRichard
> > > Stanley. Using water, chemicals, or biological degradation thebiomass is
> > > softened and the surface become sticky. You make a pulp,meal, or dough. You
> > > can then use a press, like a piston press (a laBryant), a meat grinder, a
> > > roller mill, or a cement mixer (Davis) toform the fuel into balls or
> > > bricks. Then you dry it out. The stickingmechanisms include the paper
> > > bonding, as described above, and adhesionby any number of sugars, starches,
> > > etc. that are activated or releasedby the process. The dried fuel is not as
> > > dense as a pellet or briquettebut it is uniform, it stays together, and It
> > > burns very well becausefor the form of the fuel.
> > >
> > > When we worked with Ben Bryant in the1970s and 1980s we tried a number of
> > > simple wet pulping processes tomake building products for both developed
> > > and developing countries andfibers for erosion control. Some of his
> > > products from this period arestill made commercially. In the 1990s Ben
> > > introduced me to Richard andhow he was applying some of the same wet
> > > forming principles to makebricks for fuel (and for growing seedlings). The
> > > lesson is to learn andunderstand how natural fibers and fiber chemistry can
> > > be used to anadvantage. Sometimes a small percentage of long wet fibers can
> > > be usedto bind together dry fine particles.
> > >
> > > Torrefaction. Think oftorrefaction as roasting biomass fuel in the absence
> > > of air. Biomass is heated first to dry it, then in the absence of air to
> > > 280C. At this temperature it is completely dry and some of thecellulose has
> > > converted to gas. You lose about 30% of the weight and10% of the heating
> > > value. The fuel is in the same form that you startedwith but it is dry and
> > > brittle. If you have a densifier then it takesless energy to pelletize it.
> > > The pellets store well because they resistmoisture. Torrefaction is used
> > > primarily for preparing wood fuel forburning with coal in very large
> > > utility boilers. There are severaltorrefaction projects in Europe and a few
> > > in North America. A plant inMississippi has shipped a couple of large barge
> > > loads of torrefied woodto customers in Europe.
> > >
> > > There was a project in Rwanda some yearsago that used partial torrefaction
> > > to prepare fuel bricks for domesticuse. A professor from the US designed a
> > > small torrefier andinstalled it in a refuse fuel operation run by a women's
> > > coop. Thetorrefied biomass was formed into a brick using a fire log maker
> > > likethe Shimada machine. A USAID employee we contacted knew of the project
> > > but did not know if it was still in operation. I haven't heardof any
> > > similar projects at the small scale.
> > >
> > > I hope that thislong-winded explanation helps make these processes clear.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > -----OriginalMessage-----
> > > From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On BehalfOf
> > > ajheggie at gmail.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 20131:01 AM
> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > > Subject: Re:[Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk
> > > pellets
> > >
> > > [Default] On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:53:02 +0700,PaulOlivier
> > > <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:__
> > >
> > > How does lignin soften to become a binding agent using a meat grinder?
> > > This would be truly wonderful, if it weretrue.__
> > >
> > > It won't with a meat grinder, you will need some sort of binder, like
> > > boiled starch orclay.
> > >
> > > Lignin plastisises under high pressure and heat, the heat isnormally
> > > derived from the friction of the material passing through thedie. At
> > > these pressures the cell walls collapse and then the lignin resets to
> > > form a pellet that is denser than the wood it was made from.All these
> > > systems use a lot of power and the expensive dieswear.
> > >
> > > The Shimada press is the one that produces a hexagonal logwith a hole
> > > down the middle, often blackened on the outside from theheat from the
> > > press walls.
> > >
> > > Similarly rotary die extruders use pinch rollers to punch small
> > > amounts of feed through theholes.
> > >
> > >
> > > Have a look at:
> > >
> > > http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5738e/x5738e0j.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > AJH
> > >
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> > > --
> > > Paul A. OlivierPhD
> > > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > > Dalat
> > > Vietnam
> > >
> > > Louisianatelephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (inVietnam)
> > > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > > http://www.esrla.com/ __
> >
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong ThienVuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (ringsVietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address:Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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