[Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves

Sat Jun 15 11:37:49 CDT 2013

And they  tout char production because they never took the time to master  wet binding with natural fibers , all the while looking the other way when lighting up these kilns…
Hmm
R Stanley

On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:58 AM, mtrevor wrote:

Rebecca

Watch this one----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqI63IEg3MM

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Rebecca A. Vermeer
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves ; Michael N. Trevor
Cc: Rebecca A. Vermeer ; Jon Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves

Michael,
I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one who knows the coconut so well!!   So I presume you know very well the native “tuba” drink from the flower shoot?  Do take a look at my photo album below :

https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444

– you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung together;  your preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from coconut shells (inside sacks and plastic bags).  The charcoal makers are my biggest competitors for the bucong I need to fire my eco-kalans.  Take a close look at photo #37 -the small pottery to the right which looks like a vase uses “oling” or coconut shell charcoal;  to the left you will find the big traditional kalans which can use firewood,  “palwa” or “bucong”.  The “bucong” is the fuel of the poorest and the “bingka” or rice cake bakers;  the “palwa” is bought by the not so poor;  firewood by the middleclass;  and the “oling “ is bought by the many food vendors (like “tocinos” – similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed meat buns, boiling water for disinfecting spoons & forks....) and households for broiling fish and meats (sinugba).

Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a hole in the ground –a smoky process with a lot of energy going to waste.  Do you know a better way??

Rebecca
From: mtrevor
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves

Dear Rebecca
As an ex copra maker I have met the coconut and know it well.
I have made copra by the tons. I know coconut husk and flower shoot and fronds and shell
Here the husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge sized pieces. After the nuts are husked
women haul them in from the husking areas and sun dry them in the yards. It is exhausting back breaking work
Husk is a pretty good mosquito chaser and its low burn temperature make it very good for cooking rice.
BUT THE SMOKE!!!!

I would like to see a retort system running heat to a copra drier to produce better copra with out bugs and mold
with coconut shell charcoal for sale as a by product.
In more recent years the has been some switch to your "bucong" of course this mean no more shell left over.   
Splitting husk with shell in to multiple little wedges would be considered a lot of additional work. Coconut husk it tough stuff. I find slicing off the leaflets in the field andusing the coconut frond mid rib chopped into segments and split length wise easier. The resulting stick like pieces feed into a rocket stove easier. The flower spaths are superb rocket stove fuel.

Michael
Marshall Islands

----- Original Message -----
From: Rebecca A. Vermeer
To: ; Michael N. Trevor
Cc: Rebecca A. Vermeer ; Jon Anderson
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life

Hello Michael,
Thank you for your suggestions and question.  My comments are as follows:
1.  I have considered experimenting with high silicate ash from the foot of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of Negros Oriental.   The ash is free and my partners with the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in Negros Or. and the Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon would bring the ash to Dumaguete City.  If this does not work, I’ll follow up on the TLUD route.

2.  Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho volunteers) have shown me their work with insulating bricks to form the combustion chamber in Timor Leste.  The insulating bricks are weak, fragile bricks which require a strong, heavy duty shell exterior (e.g. cement)to protect the combustion chamber and to support big cooking pots.  I still think that tiny insulating “clay marbles” between the heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and combustion chamber is the most practical way to pursue.  I am hopeful Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to produce these insulating clay marbles or pebbles cheaply.

3. For those who have not seen a coconut husk – it is a by-product of COPRA (mature coconut meat) production.  Every 3 months, the coconuts are harvested, cut into 2 halves, and meat is extracted and dried to make copra.   The husk and inside shell is dried in roof-covered sheds or storage buildings to make “bucong” – the fuel we use to fire the eco-kalans to  900 degrees Celsius.  To use the “bucong” or coconut husk with shell for fuel in a rocket stove, it is requires chopping the husk with a machete into narrow wedges (like a cantaloupe) and a combustion chamber opening  as wide and as high (5.5”x5.5”) as that of the eco-kalan.

Rebecca Vermeer
Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines
British Columbia, Canada

From: mtrevor
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 1:44 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life

Rebecca
Why not gassify rice hulls in a TLUD and then use the low cristobalite "tough" high silicate ash to mix your insulation.
Perhaps take a lead fom Aprovecho's play book and fire your liner in multiple wedge shaped pieces negating the need to break
things up.

How do to "prepare" your coconut husks for use in a rocket stove?

Michael N Trevor
Marshall Islands
From: Rebecca A. Vermeer
To: Paul Olivier
Cc: Jon Anderson ; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life

Paul,
I currently use wood ash as  insulating material between the kalan and combustion chamber of the eco-kalan (a rocket stove using wood, charcoal, coconut husk, shell, fronds and other parts of the coconut tree).  The eco-kalan uses 75-85% less firewood and therefore a lot less ash is produced compared to traditional kalans and other traditional cookstoves in Negros Oriental, Philippines.   A shortage in supply of ash is one fact

or which affects  sales of eco-kalan.    I  have considered making an insulating material  using a  50-50 mix by volume of rice hull & clay in the form of pellets or bricks which would be broken to pieces after firing.  I would fire the pellets or the bricks along with the eco-kalans up to 900 degrees Celsius.  Will there be significant formation of cristobalite under these conditions?  Would handling the fired pellets or the breaking of the bricks be a health hazard?  Thanks,

Rebecca Vermeer

From: Paul Olivier
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:07 AM
To: Rebecca A. Vermeer
Cc: Jon Anderson ; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org ; larry winiarski
Subject: Re: Fw: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life

Rebecca,

If we directly burn river hulls, there should be a lot of cristobalite formed. If we gasify, this problem should be minimized, provided channeling does not occur. Also there might be cristobalite in the particulate matter in the combustion gases. With rice hull pellets in a TLUD  we have a lot less channeling, and a lot less particulate matter. Therefore the rice hull pellet becomes an attractive fuel for these and many other reasons.

Thanks.
Paul Olivier

On Jun 14, 2013 1:44 PM, "Rebecca A. Vermeer" <ravermeer at telus.net> wrote:
Hello Paul,
Larry just told me that the silica content of rice hull ash is over 90%.  At the ETHOS 2013 Conference, I saw a TURBO stove developed in the Philippines which used rice hull for fuel.  Given your comment below regarding cristobalite “which is a nasty carcinogen” and severely hazardous to human health (see link below), would you recommend the use of  rice hull as a household fuel for cookstoves?

Rebecca Vermeer

CRISTOBALITE LINK:
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf

From: Paul Olivier
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:01 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life

Paal,

One thing I look for on my burner is that all burner holes support a flame throughout the process. If channeling occurs during the process or if char is being burned as the process comes to a close, then one can see burner holes that do not support a flame. This means that CO2 is being discharged from the burner holes, and of course CO2 does not burn. When CO2 is formed, this represents a big inefficiency, since combustion takes place far below the pot. When this happens the sides of the reactor can easily turn red hot and melt. I do not know how it is possible to spot the presence of CO2 if the top of the reactor stays open and does not have a lid with burner holes.

If one turns up the fan a bit too high resulting in channeling, it can happen that only a few holes (among a total of 80 in my case) do not support a flame. If I turn the fan down a bit and shake the reactor, this problem is immediately corrected. Also the effect of the presence of CO2 can be spotted by the cook in another way. The distribution of heat to the pan is not even.

Also many of the positive characteristics of biochar are lost when biochar is combusted and is reduced to ash. The combustion of biomass and biochar takes place when channeling occurs, and the combustion of biochar takes place if the fan is not turned off at the end of the process. Rice hull ash and rice hill biochar are not at all the same thing when it comes to growing plants. Also rice hull ash can easily contain cristobalite, which is a nasty carcinogen. Under ordinary conditions, no farmer should be handling this stuff.

Thanks.
Paul

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Paal Wendelbo <paaw at online.no> wrote:
Ron

By end of flame the color of the char is red to yellow, that indicate a temperature of 700 to 800 ˚C and when there is no smoke, complete combustion has taken place. Is that not good for biochar?

Regards Paal W

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6406 - Release Date: 06/12/13

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6406 - Release Date: 06/12/13

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6412 - Release Date: 06/14/13

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130615/995ed45b/attachment.html>