[Stoves] Stove Definition - controllability

Mon May 6 00:51:18 CDT 2013

Dear Crispin

As I see it, there are TWO issues here:Testing
1: Testing of stoves, i.e., reporting on performance observed.
2: Regulation, Standards, Laws, etc.

I agree fully with you that Turn Down of stoves is necessary to accomplish various cooking tasks. This can be done in many ways, with various advantages and disadvantages relating to adequacy, speed, cost, and effect on fuel burning efficiency.

Accordingly, I would suggest the following:
1: From a TESTING standpoint, it does not matter what the fuel efficiency is, what the stove costs, what TDR can be attained, what its emissions are, etc, The ONLY thing important in TESTING is accurate and repeatable determination of the properties and capabilities of a stove, and reporting of the results in a bland, neutral, and honest manner.

2: Between "Testing and "Regulations or Standards, is market Analysis, (probable) redesign and retesting, then another trip to "The Market" to see if the "Mark 2 version" is acceptable, If not, then repeat. If acceptable, then go to the Regulators, Standards People, etc.

3: The Regulators and Standards Folk need to know what is "achievable in practise" by a reasonable number of Manufacturers... they have to consult Test Data.... AND they have to know that the stoves meet " Requirements for Various Markets", in terms of purchase cost, fuel efficiency, cooking performance requirements, Health Concerns, and safety concerns.

I know that you know all these things, but unfortunately, some on the Stoves list are confusing "Neutral Testing to report on performance of the stove submitted for testing" with an opportunity to tilt the scales and favour an external agenda.. If the Stove Testing process is not set up to present the results in a fair and professional manner, then the Second Step of developing Regulations and Standards is doomed to distortion, unfairness and waste of money.

It is good to see that you are "thinking ahead to what is important to the Customer." In this way, you san structure the Testing and reporting Protocols that will enable Regulators and developers of Standards to make regulations and Standards that are fair, and which give the Customer what he wants. Actually, they go a bit further... sensible Regulations and Laws give the Customer what he needs.

You bring up two very good issues... the need for a TDR and the need for Stove Categories. Concerning TDR... if a TDR of 4 seems reasonable to you, then simply set up the Test Procedure to determine stove performance when operated at a TDR of 2,4,and 6. This will cost extra, but then if the Customer demands the feature, then the Manufacturer can decide if he wants to include a TDR Test set when he submits the stove for testing. The Customer can then review Test Results, and decide what stove he wants to buy. When the regulators see what the market wants, they can then Regulate the market accordingly.

Concerning Categories of stoves... I think this is mandatory. Stoves with different fuels, and different purposes will have very results. Lumping all stoves together will be very confusing to the Stove Customer.

Best wishes,

Kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition - controllability

> Dear Frank
> 
> I am not in any position to say how people turn down their fires. By that I mean this is a performance based approach, not a prescription in any way. There are good reasons why people use an open fire. One is that the fire is very controllable. 
> 
> I will address the efficiency determination separately. One thing at a time, though I agree with your HHV number the pure carbon. I think the H2 number you gave is the LHV (117 MJ/kg). 
> 
> So I am proposing that we segregate cooking appliances into functional categories with BASIC characterisations for each. They are of course driven by the customers and what they think when they buy something. 
> 
> A BBQ (barbie, braai) is a category of appliance that is largely use for roasting and grilling. It usually has very little power control with the food being raised or lowered, covered or not as a means of control. 
> 
> A kettle is a water heater that shuts off automatically if it is electrical. Is that available for LPG or wood pellets or ethanol? Why not? Maybe no one asked. 
> 
> Many people boil a small quantity if water, up to perhaps 2 litres. Cecil has identified this as a 'class' of cooking activity. Heating tea in the evening or morning is common. Sometimes people use LPG for this even if they rarely use it for anything else. This a task highly suited of a small stove that requires no attention and has zero controllability save being turned on and off. 
> 
> Translate that into larger units for heating 5 or 10 or 20 litres of water at a time. None of these require turn down. But none of them are 'cooking stoves'. 
> 
> The requirement, literally, for cooking is a controllable heat source. So the question is on the floor: how much control is enough to be a minimum?
> 
> Regards
> Crispin
> From BB9900
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 11:02:49 
> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition - controllability
> 
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