[Stoves] Advancement of "better" stoves

Mon May 27 08:48:19 CDT 2013

Paul,

We are already installing Ecostoves powered by rocket stoves into middle
class homes, as pictured (http://www.ecofogao.com.br/index.php?id=29), and
we hope one day TLUD will be able to enter this same market.  We are
waiting for the technology to mature a bit more, to introduce Ecostoves
powered by TLUD for middle class, who can pay easily US$ 200+ for such
stove.

Paul Anderson was here in 2004 trying to develop a combined stove TLUD and
Rocket stove, but at that time it was not practical to use it yet.

Rogério

2013/5/26 Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>

> Design stoves that are functional, safe and efficient. And don't forget,
> to design stoves that can be situated in modern kitchens. Getting rich
> people in developed countries to use biomass stoves should be one of our
> big priorities. I think that many of us grossly underestimate the power of
> the tlud concept. Imagine a small tlud less than 10 inches in height; made
> of high quality, long-lasting stainless steel; holding no more than about
> three or four cups of wood or straw pellets; capable of putting out 2 to 3
> kW of heat over enough time to cook an average meal; elegantly contoured to
> match in beauty high-end kitchen accessories. Such a stove need not cost
> more than $50 US to fabricate. It would produce a beautiful blue flame that
> would rival that of a bottled gas stove. It would produce a valuable
> biochar for farms and gardens. It would be proudly used in London or Laos,
> Boston or Bangladesh. It would appeal to rich and poor alike.
>
> Of course we can build cheap, tin can stoves. But why should we expect
> poor people to use them, while we would never dream of doing so, except,
> perhaps, on an occasional camping trip?
>
> Paul Olivier
>
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, mtrevor <mtrevor at ntamar.net> wrote:
>
>> **
>> I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in particular Dr Belonio, Dr.
>> Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to have stoves that could easily be poised
>> to go commercial big time. They seem  to work beautifully,  are
>> physically good looking and are close to good fuel sources. In addition they
>> are located in places where industrial and mechanical means of manufature
>> exist.
>> Not all of the rest of the world is so fortunate. While these stoves are
>> relatively economical obtaining them is another issue. While a stove could
>> be worth $25.00 $50.00 or even maybe $100.00 having to pay $200.00 $300
>> or $400.00 to obtain a sample for testing is beyond practicality. No matter
>> what efforts are expended tincanium and hammered tin has little appeal
>> here. In these day of ipads and iphones style is a major hurdle.
>>
>> Lurking in the backgound at the end of the earth.
>>
>> Michael N Trevor
>> Marshall Islands
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> *Cc:* Otto Formo <terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 PM
>> *Subject:* [Stoves] Specifics about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan
>> expertise?
>>
>> Dear all,   This is a different and more specific reply to Otto's message.
>>
>> I see four things that will greatly advance the position of
>> micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves.   I am working on all
>> four of them.
>>
>> 1.  Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at
>> reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable
>> supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not about fuels) :
>>
>> We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when available and
>> with fuels available) are accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any
>> significant segment of the population.   We need some documentation that xx
>> number of TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried
>> TLUD stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their
>> cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and again
>> each few months.    Comments from users should be reported.
>>
>> Start small, and do it well.   The money for the bigger studies will
>> follow success with the small numbers.    This is NOT about sales.   This
>> is about sustained usage.
>>
>> We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD stove,
>> but no results to report at this time.    Is anyone else doing such studies?
>>
>> 2.  Compilation of past results and further data collection about
>> emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves.  Some TLUD have had major
>> success.   And others "suck".   Which ones and why?   We seek data from the
>> stove testing centers.   We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the
>> coming 3 months.
>>
>> 3.  Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves
>> with excellent functioning.   The response must be credible for numbers of
>> many 10s of thousands for stoves per year.   20 tinsmiths seated in a
>> factory is not sufficient proof.   Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal
>> stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good quality.   I do not doubt
>> that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is there, but with
>> the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still
>> not in hand.
>>
>> 4.  Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still
>> functional about emissions and efficiencies.    I am working on this and I
>> hope to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD
>> stoves are a focal issue.
>>
>> Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones
>> with fans like Ron is discussing.   When they become available, that will
>> be wonderful.  But then such stoves will still need to be considered
>> regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.   They might be the breakthrough for
>> gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or whatever.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try to
>> convince them , that *gasifing of biomass *are here to BE and will
>> develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived.
>>
>> What about the issue of biomass as fuel?
>> Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling etc.
>>
>> Paul A and Ron,
>> If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a group of
>> "belivers" and start from there.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
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>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
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> http://www.esrla.com/
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