[Stoves] Advancement of "better" stoves

Mon May 27 10:53:47 CDT 2013

And let's also remember that using a gasifier and the biochar as a soil
amendment can be carbon negative.

Francesco

On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Let's remember that although burning natural gas when cooking adds CO2 to
> the atmosphere and sustainably harvested biomass can be carbon neutral, the
> biomass has to be completely combusted not to damage health, etc.
>
> Complete combustion of biomass is a goal not yet a reality.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>wrote:
>
>> Design stoves that are functional, safe and efficient. And don't forget,
>> to design stoves that can be situated in modern kitchens. Getting rich
>> people in developed countries to use biomass stoves should be one of our
>> big priorities. I think that many of us grossly underestimate the power of
>> the tlud concept. Imagine a small tlud less than 10 inches in height; made
>> of high quality, long-lasting stainless steel; holding no more than about
>> three or four cups of wood or straw pellets; capable of putting out 2 to 3
>> kW of heat over enough time to cook an average meal; elegantly contoured to
>> match in beauty high-end kitchen accessories. Such a stove need not cost
>> more than $50 US to fabricate. It would produce a beautiful blue flame that
>> would rival that of a bottled gas stove. It would produce a valuable
>> biochar for farms and gardens. It would be proudly used in London or Laos,
>> Boston or Bangladesh. It would appeal to rich and poor alike.
>>
>> Of course we can build cheap, tin can stoves. But why should we expect
>> poor people to use them, while we would never dream of doing so, except,
>> perhaps, on an occasional camping trip?
>>
>> Paul Olivier
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, mtrevor <mtrevor at ntamar.net> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in particular Dr Belonio, Dr.
>>> Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to have stoves that could easily be poised
>>> to go commercial big time. They seem  to work beautifully,  are
>>> physically good looking and are close to good fuel sources. In addition they
>>> are located in places where industrial and mechanical means of manufature
>>> exist.
>>> Not all of the rest of the world is so fortunate. While these stoves
>>> are relatively economical obtaining them is another issue. While a stove
>>> could be worth $25.00 $50.00 or even maybe $100.00 having to pay
>>> $200.00 $300 or $400.00 to obtain a sample for testing is beyond
>>> practicality. No matter what efforts are expended tincanium and hammered
>>> tin has little appeal here. In these day of ipads and iphones style is
>>> a major hurdle.
>>>
>>> Lurking in the backgound at the end of the earth.
>>>
>>> Michael N Trevor
>>> Marshall Islands
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> *Cc:* Otto Formo <terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 PM
>>> *Subject:* [Stoves] Specifics about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan
>>> expertise?
>>>
>>> Dear all,   This is a different and more specific reply to Otto's
>>> message.
>>>
>>> I see four things that will greatly advance the position of
>>> micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves.   I am working on all
>>> four of them.
>>>
>>> 1.  Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at
>>> reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable
>>> supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not about fuels) :
>>>
>>> We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when available
>>> and with fuels available) are accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any
>>> significant segment of the population.   We need some documentation that xx
>>> number of TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried
>>> TLUD stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their
>>> cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and again
>>> each few months.    Comments from users should be reported.
>>>
>>> Start small, and do it well.   The money for the bigger studies will
>>> follow success with the small numbers.    This is NOT about sales.   This
>>> is about sustained usage.
>>>
>>> We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD
>>> stove, but no results to report at this time.    Is anyone else doing such
>>> studies?
>>>
>>> 2.  Compilation of past results and further data collection about
>>> emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves.  Some TLUD have had major
>>> success.   And others "suck".   Which ones and why?   We seek data from the
>>> stove testing centers.   We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the
>>> coming 3 months.
>>>
>>> 3.  Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves
>>> with excellent functioning.   The response must be credible for numbers of
>>> many 10s of thousands for stoves per year.   20 tinsmiths seated in a
>>> factory is not sufficient proof.   Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal
>>> stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good quality.   I do not doubt
>>> that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is there, but with
>>> the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still
>>> not in hand.
>>>
>>> 4.  Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still
>>> functional about emissions and efficiencies.    I am working on this and I
>>> hope to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD
>>> stoves are a focal issue.
>>>
>>> Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones
>>> with fans like Ron is discussing.   When they become available, that will
>>> be wonderful.  But then such stoves will still need to be considered
>>> regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.   They might be the breakthrough for
>>> gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or whatever.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
>>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>> On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try to
>>> convince them , that *gasifing of biomass *are here to BE and will
>>> develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived.
>>>
>>> What about the issue of biomass as fuel?
>>> Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling etc.
>>>
>>> Paul A and Ron,
>>> If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a group of
>>> "belivers" and start from there.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Otto
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
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>>
>>
>
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