[Stoves] Advancement of "better" stoves

Mon May 27 10:47:12 CDT 2013

Hi All,

Let's remember that although burning natural gas when cooking adds CO2 to
the atmosphere and sustainably harvested biomass can be carbon neutral, the
biomass has to be completely combusted not to damage health, etc.

Complete combustion of biomass is a goal not yet a reality.

Best,

Dean

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>wrote:

> Design stoves that are functional, safe and efficient. And don't forget,
> to design stoves that can be situated in modern kitchens. Getting rich
> people in developed countries to use biomass stoves should be one of our
> big priorities. I think that many of us grossly underestimate the power of
> the tlud concept. Imagine a small tlud less than 10 inches in height; made
> of high quality, long-lasting stainless steel; holding no more than about
> three or four cups of wood or straw pellets; capable of putting out 2 to 3
> kW of heat over enough time to cook an average meal; elegantly contoured to
> match in beauty high-end kitchen accessories. Such a stove need not cost
> more than $50 US to fabricate. It would produce a beautiful blue flame that
> would rival that of a bottled gas stove. It would produce a valuable
> biochar for farms and gardens. It would be proudly used in London or Laos,
> Boston or Bangladesh. It would appeal to rich and poor alike.
>
> Of course we can build cheap, tin can stoves. But why should we expect
> poor people to use them, while we would never dream of doing so, except,
> perhaps, on an occasional camping trip?
>
> Paul Olivier
>
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, mtrevor <mtrevor at ntamar.net> wrote:
>
>> **
>> I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in particular Dr Belonio, Dr.
>> Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to have stoves that could easily be poised
>> to go commercial big time. They seem  to work beautifully,  are
>> physically good looking and are close to good fuel sources. In addition they
>> are located in places where industrial and mechanical means of manufature
>> exist.
>> Not all of the rest of the world is so fortunate. While these stoves are
>> relatively economical obtaining them is another issue. While a stove could
>> be worth $25.00 $50.00 or even maybe $100.00 having to pay $200.00 $300
>> or $400.00 to obtain a sample for testing is beyond practicality. No matter
>> what efforts are expended tincanium and hammered tin has little appeal
>> here. In these day of ipads and iphones style is a major hurdle.
>>
>> Lurking in the backgound at the end of the earth.
>>
>> Michael N Trevor
>> Marshall Islands
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> *Cc:* Otto Formo <terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 PM
>> *Subject:* [Stoves] Specifics about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan
>> expertise?
>>
>> Dear all,   This is a different and more specific reply to Otto's message.
>>
>> I see four things that will greatly advance the position of
>> micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves.   I am working on all
>> four of them.
>>
>> 1.  Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at
>> reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable
>> supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not about fuels) :
>>
>> We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when available and
>> with fuels available) are accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any
>> significant segment of the population.   We need some documentation that xx
>> number of TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried
>> TLUD stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their
>> cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and again
>> each few months.    Comments from users should be reported.
>>
>> Start small, and do it well.   The money for the bigger studies will
>> follow success with the small numbers.    This is NOT about sales.   This
>> is about sustained usage.
>>
>> We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD stove,
>> but no results to report at this time.    Is anyone else doing such studies?
>>
>> 2.  Compilation of past results and further data collection about
>> emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves.  Some TLUD have had major
>> success.   And others "suck".   Which ones and why?   We seek data from the
>> stove testing centers.   We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the
>> coming 3 months.
>>
>> 3.  Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves
>> with excellent functioning.   The response must be credible for numbers of
>> many 10s of thousands for stoves per year.   20 tinsmiths seated in a
>> factory is not sufficient proof.   Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal
>> stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good quality.   I do not doubt
>> that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is there, but with
>> the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still
>> not in hand.
>>
>> 4.  Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still
>> functional about emissions and efficiencies.    I am working on this and I
>> hope to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD
>> stoves are a focal issue.
>>
>> Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones
>> with fans like Ron is discussing.   When they become available, that will
>> be wonderful.  But then such stoves will still need to be considered
>> regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.   They might be the breakthrough for
>> gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or whatever.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try to
>> convince them , that *gasifing of biomass *are here to BE and will
>> develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived.
>>
>> What about the issue of biomass as fuel?
>> Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling etc.
>>
>> Paul A and Ron,
>> If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a group of
>> "belivers" and start from there.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6358 - Release Date: 05/25/13
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130527/939405ed/attachment.html>