[Stoves] plant physiology
Cookswell Jikos
cookswelljikos at gmail.com
Sat Nov 30 19:11:37 CST 2013
Dear Bob,
>From personal experience most rural Kenyan's I have met are little concerned
with outsiders expectations of how they should manage their natural
resources and landscapes. As it is today, a large part woodfuel in Kenya
(both commercial and domestic) is coming from farm forests or Trust land
since the Govt. bans on harvesting plantations in the 1990's. (please see
http://www.inforse.org/Case/Case-Kenya-Afforestation.php3 and
http://www.acts.or.ke/dmdocuments/Acacia%20Pocketbook%20low%20res.pdf and
also
http://worldagroforestry.org/newsroom/media_coverage/agroforestry-can-meet-c
harcoal-demand-kenya and also http://rael.berkeley.edu/bailis_phd for some
recent studies).
Tree's can be planted during the rainy season to minimize need for watering
and can be grown as alley-crops or fence line windbreaks etc. and thus not
overly compete for arable land.
My interest in this is from my understanding that by designing,
manufacturing and selling cookstoves, ovens and kilns that make it easier
and cheaper for people to burn trees, I have very strong vested interests
and a responsibility to advocate and encourage positive woodfuel security
measures. I know not everyone of my customers will be able to take part in
the ''seed-to-ash'' cycle (please see below), but I am always thrilled when
the early adapters do. And if we can help subsidize the cost of fuel for our
customers, they hopefully can use the money saved to buy another model of
stove from us.
Back to my question of the possible discussion of fuels at the ETHOS
conference, is this something that is of interest to any of you?
The more I read about ETHOS the more I want to come to learn more! I have
been sending quite a few stoves to the USA from Nbi. and I would love to
meet some customers and do some M&E on how our North American clients use
our jikos.
Thanks and any thoughts, critics and comments any of you have is always very
instructive to me.
Teddy
Inline image 1
Cookswell Jikos
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 009
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd
7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:52 AM, <rbtvl at aol.com> wrote:
thanks Arnand
I hope to come to Ethos but might be in Tanzania working.
do you have any data on how much fuel you can grow at some maximum rate?
My concern is that we can't expect poor rural people to focus their water
gathering energies and land use on firewood production. Of course, if they
can burn dried up corn plants and stuff like that it is all to the good.
integrating growth of fuel and food is always a good idea.
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS program growing firewood
Dear Bob Lange and Stovers,
I am a plant physiologist. I won't mind attending Ethos Meeting if somebody
pays me my air fare and local expenses.
The high energy in seeds and tubers that you mention has nothing to do with
the physical calorific value of these substances. They have a high content
of digestible matter so that the energy becomes available to you, when you
eat them. Burning sugar, starch, cellulose or lignin would release about the
same quantity of energy per unit weight. Because cellulose and lignin are
not digestible to humans, the straw and stover from crop plants,
constituting about 60 to 70% of the total biomass, is available to the
farmer to be used as fuel. It must however be processed to increase its
energy density to resemble that of wood.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 5:09 PM, <rbtvl at aol.com> wrote:
I think we should invite a plant physiologist to come to ETHOS to explain
why we should not focus on getting people to grow their own fuel. Plants
are living things. In the first place they are not very efficient at all in
catching the energy in sun light. But what they do catch they put mostly
into metabolism and reproduction. Like us animals. That is why we eat
seeds. They are loaded with energy that the plant put there for their
young to use until the little ones can photosynthesize for themselves.
Mammals use the mother's milk Plants use their seeds. (Some animals, not
mammals, use eggs for reproduction. So we eat eggs.)
If you are rural and poor and have a little land and sufficient water, you
will almost certainly want to grow food itself rather than fire wood. no?
Fire wood is very demanding of land area. You can be clever and minimize
it. This species that species. but it is land expensive. Because the
part of the plant you burn for fuel is not important to the plant, except to
support its leaves. so the plant puts minimal energy there.
If growing fuel wood is going to be taken seriously, it should be a
government task. Local or national government. Centralize it. Do it
big and well on land that individual families don't need to grow food
itself. do it on land that is difficult to use for other things. On the
sides of hills. someplace useless. someplace rocky. Make it a campaign in
the Global Alliance's "enabling environment".
Funny, but the problem is that people cook so much. What we need are more
species of plants and animals that produce parts that we could find
nourishing and tasty and desirable without cooking at all. Damn it. Why
do we have to heat up food so much? Maybe soak the food in some liquid
like fruit juice or spices some natural acid for all day and then serve it.
I know cooking has a very significant role in make food culturally and
physiologically acceptable. But If only we could find more foods that were
good for us, culturally and physiologically, but eaten raw. That would be
real stove progress. I personally like to eat almost all vegetables raw.
even beans and corn. I don't know if I am throwing away a lot of their
nutrition, though.
Bob Lange Maasai stoves and solar.
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--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
Cookswell Jikos
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 009
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd
7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:52 AM, <rbtvl at aol.com> wrote:
thanks Arnand
I hope to come to Ethos but might be in Tanzania working.
do you have any data on how much fuel you can grow at some maximum rate?
My concern is that we can't expect poor rural people to focus their water
gathering energies and land use on firewood production. Of course, if they
can burn dried up corn plants and stuff like that it is all to the good.
integrating growth of fuel and food is always a good idea.
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS program growing firewood
Dear Bob Lange and Stovers,
I am a plant physiologist. I won't mind attending Ethos Meeting if somebody
pays me my air fare and local expenses.
The high energy in seeds and tubers that you mention has nothing to do with
the physical calorific value of these substances. They have a high content
of digestible matter so that the energy becomes available to you, when you
eat them. Burning sugar, starch, cellulose or lignin would release about the
same quantity of energy per unit weight. Because cellulose and lignin are
not digestible to humans, the straw and stover from crop plants,
constituting about 60 to 70% of the total biomass, is available to the
farmer to be used as fuel. It must however be processed to increase its
energy density to resemble that of wood.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 5:09 PM, <rbtvl at aol.com> wrote:
I think we should invite a plant physiologist to come to ETHOS to explain
why we should not focus on getting people to grow their own fuel. Plants
are living things. In the first place they are not very efficient at all in
catching the energy in sun light. But what they do catch they put mostly
into metabolism and reproduction. Like us animals. That is why we eat
seeds. They are loaded with energy that the plant put there for their
young to use until the little ones can photosynthesize for themselves.
Mammals use the mother's milk Plants use their seeds. (Some animals, not
mammals, use eggs for reproduction. So we eat eggs.)
If you are rural and poor and have a little land and sufficient water, you
will almost certainly want to grow food itself rather than fire wood. no?
Fire wood is very demanding of land area. You can be clever and minimize
it. This species that species. but it is land expensive. Because the
part of the plant you burn for fuel is not important to the plant, except to
support its leaves. so the plant puts minimal energy there.
If growing fuel wood is going to be taken seriously, it should be a
government task. Local or national government. Centralize it. Do it
big and well on land that individual families don't need to grow food
itself. do it on land that is difficult to use for other things. On the
sides of hills. someplace useless. someplace rocky. Make it a campaign in
the Global Alliance's "enabling environment".
Funny, but the problem is that people cook so much. What we need are more
species of plants and animals that produce parts that we could find
nourishing and tasty and desirable without cooking at all. Damn it. Why
do we have to heat up food so much? Maybe soak the food in some liquid
like fruit juice or spices some natural acid for all day and then serve it.
I know cooking has a very significant role in make food culturally and
physiologically acceptable. But If only we could find more foods that were
good for us, culturally and physiologically, but eaten raw. That would be
real stove progress. I personally like to eat almost all vegetables raw.
even beans and corn. I don't know if I am throwing away a lot of their
nutrition, though.
Bob Lange Maasai stoves and solar.
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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