[Stoves] Water heating with TLUDs

Jock Gill jg45 at icloud.com
Sat Oct 5 10:22:24 MDT 2013


I would suggest the approach Lanny and I take:  Enclose the capsule holding the water to be boiled in a container so that ALL sides [surfaces], top and bottom, are exposed to heat well above the boiling point of water.  No surface of the container holding the water to be boiled should be exposed to drafts or temperatures below the boiling point.  This approach works very well indeed.

Lanny:  Your thoughts?

Cheers,

Jock

Jock Gill
P.O. Box 3
Peacham,  VT 05862

Cell: (617) 449-8111

:> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 5, 2013, at 12:13 PM, crispinpigott at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Dear Paul and All
> 
> You are correct re the kitchens.
> 
> So with the cat out of the bag, there will be a water heating category separate from stoves and it is highly suited to TLUD's that require no attention. I suggest the 5 to 10 litre capacity range - one does not need to fill it of course. 
> 
> Because I know it is quite possible to get a very high heat transfer efficiency with a gas flame from biomass, the target performance will be high to qualify for a subsidy. It will be subject to the usual system efficiency calculation so if you want to make char it has to come out of energy savings.
> 
> I view them as fuel, fire and forget systems.  No interaction should be required from the operator after ignition.
> 
> To share some ideas, think of it this way: to boil 5 litres of water takes about 2 MJ of heat.  At 50% system efficiency that takes about 250-300 g of fuel so that sets the combustion chamber size. it is going to have to burn pretty much completely in about 15-20 minutes (rate of 1.2 kg/hr). If it makes a significant amount of char, say 15%, the HTE will have to be higher and the fuel load larger.
> 
> You get the idea. I think if a skirt is used it can serve as a chimney and it will speed the combustion rate which will improve the heat flux rate (watts/cm^2) to boil faster.
> 
> Please give it some thought - how you would solves0 this design problem.
> 
> Regards
> Crispin
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
> 
> 
> Nolbert at Awamu and to all Stovers    
> 
> [And i am sending this to a few others who are not on the Stoves Listserv.   And sending it 
> to the Biochar List because it shows a very good way to have a useful task (heating water) while using TLUD
> technology to make biochar.]
> 
> You received this whole message from the Stoves Listserv, but I am emphasizing part of it.   
> Crispin wrote in reference to Indonesia:
>> It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
>> with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases. 
>> 
>> Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean
> [ he probably mistyped this and it meant to say "UNclean or rustic or 'outside' (that I observed in India)  "] 
>> portion with wood and
>> dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
>> opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
>> suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
>> operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
>> kettle.
> THIS is an extremely important niche for Awamu and for TLUDs everywhere.  Just one highly common, frequent (maybe even multiple times per day) and useful application (in this case water heating for bathing or for boiling to drink) to provide sufficient market and demand for introducing the TLUD technology to households and to schools.  TLUD convenience as pointed out by Crispin and the use of less expensive fuel could turn the tide of acceptance in some communities.
> 
> We need to think of "kitchens" or separate areas where the pots are black and that does not matter.
> 
> Note that this is not just for boiling water for drinking, which can be ANOTHER major utility of TLUD stoves.
> 
> Doc
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:	Re: [Stoves] NE Biochar takes the C-cake
> Date:	Sat, 05 Oct 2013 00:25:40 +0700
> From:	Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> Reply-To:	Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> To:	'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> 
> Dear Ron
> 
> > Anything more on wood prices in town would be helpful.  And for anything
> in large quantities.
> > Any data on the main cooking fuels if not char?  Propane, electricity,
> etc.  Much wood?
> 
> The study just finished is being compiled. Early indications are that a
> rough split of 40% cooking primarily with wood, 40% cooking primarily with
> (subsidised) LPG, 20% with kerosene and electricity.
> 
> Of the 40% using LPG, 70% are using wood to heat water.
> Of the 40% using wood, over 70% are using LPG to some extent, even in places
> quite far from a supply.
> 
> It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
> with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases. 
> 
> Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean portion with wood and
> dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
> opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
> suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
> operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
> kettle.
> 
> Regards
> Crispin
> 
> 
> 
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