[Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Wed Oct 9 15:24:21 CDT 2013

Tom,

When I test these un-known materials I do two Calcium Carbonate Equivalent
tests. One is for carbonates where I tip over some HCl in a sealed container
holding the sample and measure the pressure produced. That is the carbonates
and compare with a known sample of pure CaCO3. The other test I heat a
sample in 50 mls 1N HCl the back titrate to get the neutralizing value (as
CaCO3).  The two should match if all in the carbonate form. If the
neutralizing value is higher I consider there might be some oxides in the
sample and potential problems for Ag use. Still can be used but not as
suggested from a soil report and application rate based on Carbonate test.
And caution and common sense required. Safer for me to say just don't use
it. 

Frank

Don't understand why the color of my text keeps changing?

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Tom Miles
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:10 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Frank,

You will note that we measure CO2 in our ash elemental analyses in the
alkali study for the purpose detecting carbonates. You can do the math to
see how much carbonate we found. 

Tom 

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Frank Shields
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:02 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

There are stock piles of liming materials around the country like in
Davenport where Lone Star cement plant was and at National Refractories on
Moss Landing next to the PG&E power plant where they pumped in sea water to
add dolomite and precipitate out the magnesium for refractory bricks. Both
now out of business and left big piles of high pH waste. I discourage its
use in agriculture because when using lime CaCO3 the pH goes to 8 then the
lime stops working but these waste materials will keep working and the pH
can go much too high. That is what I worry about with these ashes you
mention. We plan to make a solution of the ash from Australia and bring the
pH down for our chemical reaction so the remaining solution may be ag
suitable if there are not other things in the solution (metals) and it will
dissolve with the addition of acid. Depends on how much is carbonates and
/or oxides - I think. 

The material at National Refractories was used to mix with salt water harbor
dredging from the Moss Landing boat harbor and used to make a pad for the
local composting facility. As far as I know it is still working fine. 

Frank

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Tom Miles
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 12:46 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Liming capacity has always been the selling point for wood ash. In the 1990s
about 95% of the wood ash from biomass plants was land applied for soil
improvement. Now much of the ash is land filled because biomass plants
sometimes burn urban wood waste. The biomass plants cannot guarantee that
the ash from the urban wood waste will pass environmental regulations for
metals. They mostly will but it is cheaper to send it to the land fill than
to test for compliance.

Our study stimulated literally thousands of studies and caused some changes
in the way some boilers are designed and ash is handled. Each year I review
several papers on the topic for academic journals. Today we see the same
patterns in the way ash transforms during combustion.  Better analytical
tools have confirmed many of our conclusions. The relationships between
elements in the ash are better understood. It is now possible to model what
will happen to wood ash in a boiler with acceptable levels of accuracy. 

Next week at the Biochar conference we will hear that if wood ash contains
60% or more charcoal then it will behave more like biochar. If it has less
carbon then it will behave like ash. Producers are finding markets for both
qualities of wood ash. This should also apply to wood ash from cooking
stoves. We need people to try it. 

Tom     

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Frank Shields
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 12:18 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Tom,

Guess I will wait until I get a sample but at least it seems there is a good
possibility the 'waste' material will be a good candidate for what we want
to use it for, namely to raise the pH of a solution with some cheap (free or
pay to take) material. Great report!  I see I already have a copy on my
computer and used a different section to assemble a test package for
remaining ash. I think the presence of Si is the potential big problems. 

Frank

Frank Shields

Control Laboratories; Inc.

42 Hangar Way

Watsonville, CA  95076

(831) 724-5422 tel

(831) 724-3188 fax

frank at biocharlab.com

www.controllabs.com

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Tom Miles
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 11:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Frank

See http://www.trmiles.com/alkali/Alkali_Report.pdf

"Alkali Deposits Found In Biomass Power Plants A Preliminary Investigation
of their Extent and Nature"

In that study we looked at the composition of the fuel ash and the way it is
transformed as it is burned in the furnace, cooled in the boiler, and
captured in the pollution control devices. You will find some of the
mineralogy (forms of ash) recorded in the appendices. 

We find that ash that is removed from the furnace section (grate ash) is
very similar to the ash in the fuel. Ash that is removed from the boiler and
pollution control devices largely consists of salts that are formed from low
melting elements that have volatilized from the fuel (K, NA) and reacted
with other low melting elements (S, P, CL) to form alkali salts. Particles
that leave the furnace are often enriched in these salts. Because of the
high calcium content of biomass fuels you also get carbonates. (Carbonates
are also an artifact of calcining the ash sample for analysis).  

Large particle collected in the primary cyclone of a biomass plant tend to
be very high in carbon. We have found these chars can be good "biochars."
The small particles that pass through the cyclone and are captured in
pollution control devices (electrostatic precipitator or baghouse) are often
the alkali salts. The condense on air and water tubes and cause corrosion.
In s stove they might corrode the pot or chamber over time, especially if
they are exposed to moisture. 

So you can see that the burner, whether it is a cooking stove or industrial
furnace, separates - or fractionates - the fuel into carbon (CO2, char).
salt enriched minerals, water and gases (N2).  

Tom      

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Frank Shields
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 11:27 AM
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Stoves] Lime residue in stack?

Greetings Stovers

I am being asked to test a sample of a "lime residue" from a stack of a
power plant(?) to see if can be used in agriculture or in chemical
manufacturing. Is there such a thing as carbonates or oxides formed in
stacks? In pure enough quantity. I was thinking most all the residue was
from organics (tars) depositing on the walls. Not sure what the fuel is but
I think is a big operation in Australia.

Thanks

Frank

Frank Shields

Control Laboratories; Inc.

42 Hangar Way

Watsonville, CA  95076

(831) 724-5422 tel

(831) 724-3188 fax

frank at biocharlab.com

www.controllabs.com

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