[Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test char-making stoves (attn: GACC testers)

[Ronal W. Larson]

Crispin and list and Alex

     I suppose that this below might be a help - but I remain confused.  I keep trying to insert the word charcoal (oranges in Jim Jetter's language) into this dialog and I don't see it below.  Also I don't see it in a different but similar message from you today.  

   Could you clarify on whether you are or are not happy with Jim Jetter's slide 46 in the way in which intentional char production is occurring and Jim's reporting of that number - in energy units?  

   Not quite the same, but if a stove does cooking, space heating (new idea below) and makes charcoal - I assume that char would still be of zero value then?

    Or how should the conscientious stove tester handle your phrase in the second row if he/she sees before him/her three (not two) piles:  (assume partially torified) wood, char, ash?  Is char in your first pile or the second or not in either?
   'Energy in the fuel remaining, divided in to two portions: usable fuel and unusable waste"

   I'd also like to better understand the burn cycle needed to get turn-down ratio -  in your final sentence.

To Alex English - I am working on your head-of-a-pin question - but need the data above to answer fully.

Ron


On Oct 13, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Ron
>  
> Here are most of the metrics available from a good test:
>  
> Energy reaching the pot (including the mass of the pot material)
> Energy in the fuel remaining, divided in to two portions: usable fuel and unusable waste
> Energy that escapes in heat that bypasses the pot and unburned H2, CO and H2S (etc) i.e. chemical losses.
>  
> The calculable outputs are:
> Heat gained by the pot: quantity of heat Q, rate of heat gain Q’ and heat flux rate Q’’ (based on the size of the pot)
> Heat yielded by the fire considering chemical losses
> Energy consumption based on raw fuel consumed (potential total input energy )
> Overall thermal efficiency (pot gain divided by Energy consumption)
> Heat transfer efficiency (pot gain divided by heat yielded)
> Combustion efficiency (heat yielded divided by heat theoretically yieldable)
> Space heating efficiency (fire heat minus chemical losses and sensible heat losses, i.e. stack losses)
> Average fuel consumption rate
> Maximum power.
>  
> If the burn cycle is correctly chosen, turn down ratio can be determined.
>  
> Regards
> Crispin
>  
>  
>  
> From: Ronal W. Larson [mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:27 AM
> To: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Discussion of biomass
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test char-making stoves (attn: GACC testers)
>  
> Crispin and list:
>  
>   Yes.   Comparing to wet wood makes no sense.   But I repeat I want what Jim is already giving us - energy out over energy in.  I especially want to know the inefficiency of the system.  How much energy was totally lost.
>  
> Ron
>  
>  
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 11:28 AM, crispinpigott at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Is it the percentage in terms of the dry mass of fuel consumed?
>  
> Thanks
> Crispin
> From: Ronal W. Larson
> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 22:12
> To: Discussion of biomass
> Cc: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Frank Shields
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test char-making stoves (attn:
> GACC testers)
>  
> List,  Crispin,  Frank
>  
>    I want what Jim is producing already.  Which of course is already giving the char mass and percentage.  I also want the same in energy terms (oranges).
>  
> Ron
>  
>  
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Ron and Frank
>  
> On the subject of working out how much char is produced:
>  
> You gather the char and weigh it and then you know.
>  
> Ron, would you prefer the char mass expressed as a % of the initial dry mass of fuel loaded?
>  
> Thanks
> Crispin
> 
> 
> 

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