[Stoves] Hydrogen from charcoal

[Paul Anderson]

Crispin,

Charcoal stove, was operating, but "everything was cooled"??? Meaning 
that there was no "serious" (as in glowing red) char in the stove, but 
emissions were still coming off, correct?

And no easily visible "smoke" because CO and H2 are colorless.

You have seen it many times on WHAT other types of stoves? Example, if a 
Rocket stove, was there ONLY char in the bottom of that stove?   If yes, 
that is different than if there were smoldering sticks with visible smoke.

Very interesting.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/9/2013 4:16 PM, crispinpigott at gmail.com wrote:
> ?Dear Paul
>
> The measurement in this case was taken from a hood above the stove 
> after everything was cooled.
>
> It was a charcoal stove but that is not essential - I have seen it 
> many times.
>
> It is 'the smoke'.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
> >>Q10>>>
> ???*
> *?
>
>
> Crispin, Frans and all,
>
> This is an interesting discussion.   I do not have answers, but do 
> have questions for clarification.
>
> Please describe the stove / unit again.
>
> Precisely where is the probe for taking the gas samples?
>
> This is NOT emissions gases above the flame front of the combustible 
> gases, correct?
>
> What were the emissions of H and CO after the flame front of combustion?
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu    
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com
> On 9/9/2013 1:52 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>> Dear Frans
>>
>> Those are very interesting considerations for emissions testers.
>>
>> There are four sources of Hydrogen then: water in the ambient air, 
>> fuel moisture, hydrogen in the fuel and moisture in the stove body if 
>> it is made from a ceramic material.
>>
>> I am discounting the possibility that there is much hydrogen in the 
>> ambient air.
>>
>> In case anyone would like to see the raw data it is pasted below your 
>> reply. The high H2(EF) is not the result of an unusually high lambda 
>> value multiplied by a tiny hydrogen concentration. There is quite a 
>> lot present even at a significant dilution.
>>
>> I see no other mechanism for this level -- water gas shift reaction. 
>> It is taking place at quite ordinary temperatures in relatively small 
>> fires (a few kW).  This may encourage some gasifier builders to 
>> consider ways to create better quality gas.
>>
>> So, why is the ratio to CO almost constant in most tests? The 
>> correlation coefficient between the CO and H2 is 97.7%. Given some 
>> room for instrument error, that is pretty darn close to unity.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>> Dear Crispin,
>>
>> Dont forget: at 900 °C H2O +C------> H2 +CO Your plot is missing 
>> themperature !
>>
>> Mind hydrogen is dens 2 versus  28 for CO becouse every mol gas  
>> =22,4 L .
>>
>> So H2 escapes 14 times faster by Archimedes ....
>>
>> If you measure in a horizontal stoofpipe! Up and down is different !!!
>>
>> CO is not only the bad stove but the production from water in watergas .
>>
>> The smoke must be returned into a glowing fuelmass . Fluidized sand  
>> bed or Karnetsoff system .
>>
>> Hydrogen is free of no cost here ,so nobody has interesse to measure it .
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Frans
>>
>> ++++++++++++
>>
>> Raw data, H2, test SeTAR_539, charcoal
>>
>> *ppm H2 (5)*
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 1
>>
>> Ignition 3
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 0
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 10
>>
>> 17
>>
>> 26
>>
>> 35
>>
>> 44
>>
>> 51
>>
>> 55
>>
>> 58
>>
>> 59
>>
>> 62
>>
>> 61
>>
>> 59
>>
>> 57
>>
>> 54
>>
>> 51
>>
>> 50
>>
>> 47
>>
>> 46
>>
>> 45
>>
>> 44
>>
>> 43
>>
>> 43
>>
>> 40
>>
>> 41
>>
>> 42
>>
>> 43
>>
>> 46
>>
>> 49
>>
>> 55
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>> 58
>>
>> 62
>>
>> 69
>>
>> 73
>>
>> 78
>>
>> 84
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>> 87
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>> 92
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>> 98
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>>
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