[Stoves] Is LPG all that bad?

Tue Dec 2 22:45:58 CST 2014

Dear Crispin,
cost of subsidised LPG in India is about USCents 50 per kg, while that of
the non-subsidized LPG is about US$1 per kg.. A lot of households boil
their drinking water. Therefore, a highly efficient water boiler would be
welcome
Yours
A.D.Karve
 ***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

>  Thanks AD
>
> Do you have any idea as to the scale of the subsidy actually being used? I
> have never investigated the Indian Market.
>
> James Robinson and I investigated the composition and heat energy in
> Indian 'LPG' which is a blend of propane and butane. It is significantly
> different in proportion from the South African 'Handigas'.
>
> The heat contents are similar, of course.
>
> Do you think that a very clean water heater - a specialised device - would
> be of interest to rural homes? I envision a heater that is loaded, lit and
> not touched again until the water boils. With prepared fuel it should be
> very fuel efficient and very clean. It could be much more fuel efficient
> than a stove.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
> BBM 2B567CC3
>    *From: *Anand Karve
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 2, 2014 22:52
> *To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Reply To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Is LPG all that bad?
>
>   Dear Crispin,
> the life style of the urban people serves as the role model for the
> rural people. Our organisation is in the business of selling stoves
> using biomass as fuel. We found that it was practically impossible to
> sell our clean burning stoves to individual users in the rural areas
> because firstly the clean burning stoves are costly and secondly
> because the rural people aspire to use LPG. Our biomass burning stoves
> are purchased by urban philanthrophists who distribute them as free
> gifts in villages adopted by them. This means that even the biomass
> burning stoves have to be subsidised, if you want the rural people to
> use them. The subsidy on LPG is available in India only to individual
> households and only on a particular number of cylinders per year per
> family. Restaurants, hostels, industrial establishments etc. have to
> buy LPG at the non-subsidised price, which is about double the
> subsidised price.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
>
> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
> > Dear AD
> >
> > LPG is a wonderful fuel for those who can get it and pay for it. Because
> of
> > cost, kerosene was heavily subsidised in Indonesia. It became so
> expensive
> > when the price of oil was run up that the subsidy  was literally
> > bankrupting the country. They tried to raise the price and there were
> > riots.
> >
> > So they embarked on the only other viable plan: to switch their subsidy
> to
> > LPG but at a lower level.
> >
> > This was accomplished in a total of 4 years, I believe. Some 40 million
> > stoves were given away. Recently Cecil Cook and the WB social science
> team
> > led by Helen Carlsson discovered that 70% of the poor people 'cooking
> with
> > wood' also used LPG at least part of the time.
> >
> > Cecil found it is used for very particular tasks which fit the
> description
> > you gave below - largely for quick cooking and reheating of food, making
> tea
> > and when the pots should remain clean.
> >
> > Problems emerged last year when the budget allocation for LPG and
> gasoline
> > (which sells for $0.66 a litre) ran out long before year end. Same
> problem
> > as before : rising energy prices.
> >
> > Now that there is a determined effort to drive the international price of
> > oil down, perhaps they get a reprieve for a while, but the fact remains,
> to
> > give access to LPG it has to be subsidised. Otherwise they will use more
> > wood.
> >
> > It is not a matter of one of the other, people use both, but the switch
> to
> > wood is immediate if the price rises.
> >
> > Globally there is a shortage of LPG. Thus pressure on the price will
> remain.
> > Part of the price is a relatively expensive delivery cost as every aspect
> > of it is regulated and has to be very safe. I say that with kerosene in
> mind
> > which is far cheaper to distribute. It can also be loaned or sold to a
> > neighbour on a small scale.
> >
> > Both can be burned extremely cleanly so it is a disappointment to see the
> > WHO refer to kerosene as a 'dirty fuel' in need of being removed from all
> > homes. A stove that cannot burn it properly is the guilty party, not 'a
> > fuel'.
> >
> > Regards
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> > Dear List,
> > I saw recently a lot of criticism against LPG. As cooking fuel, it is
> > really superb, giving a blue flame without smoke or soot,
> > instantaneous ignition, finger-tip control of flame intensity, no ash,
> > etc. Being liquifiable, relatively large quantities of it can be
> > filled into cylinders which occupy very little space in the kitchen.
> > One can carry the cylinder around if the gas is needed elsewhere. I
> > understand that LPG is a by product of petroleum refining and that one
> > cannot avoid the production of LPG as long as we are using petroleum
> > and refining it. So, if we stopped using it as cooking fuel, we shall
> > have to find an alternative use for it.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> >
> > Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
> >
> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> >
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> >
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