[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1

Thu Jan 2 04:54:59 CST 2014

Dear All,

I am Anh from Vietnam, I am new in here, been reading for a while and this
is my first reply.

We are a new start up, private social business in Vietnam making improved
cook stoves and decentralization is what we are trying to do. The plan is to
make parts in Hanoi, capital of Vietnam, and ship out to other provinces and
set up assemblers shop there at local households to put the part together
and distribute in their area. If this work, with consumption of ~300
stoves/month we can shift 1 job from city to rural area where the job
definitely have higher value. Also for the business, we can save tons of
costs such as workshop, warehouse, transportation,... and have replacement
parts stored much closer to consumers. Til now, we are close to get the
first assembler up, there's still a lot of issues but hope it will work out
fine. 

As for fuels, we had plan for a facility making biomass briquettes/pellets
too but had to cancel it due to the difficulties in securing raw material
supply. As biomass come from all around and many come in by season (rice
harvest only happen twice a year to have straw), its very hard and costly to
collect and store the biomass for production all year. One of our project is
to equip multiple small scale briquetting machines to local people, teach
them how to produce and purchase all of their output.

Decentralize has many issues in quality, training, production safety,...
that much harder to control but sometimes it is the only way that can work
the economic.

So I guess the absolute answer for Centralization or Decentralization must
depend on each case or we can just use mixed mode.

Regards,

Anh

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
      (Paul Anderson)
   2. Re: ETHOS / and in defence of Paal,: Glocally Networked
      Localised Initiaves ? "centralisation" or for that matter
      "decentralisation" (Richard Stanley)
   3. Re: [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood heating in
      the UK - whole log gasification (Jeff Davis)
   4. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
      (Ben Blevins)
   5. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
      (Jonathan P Gill)
   6. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
      (Ronal W. Larson)
   7. Re: [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood heating in
      the UK - whole log gasification (Ronal W. Larson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:34:45 -0600
From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
	efforts
Message-ID: <52C35495.1050609 at ilstu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dear Paal, and all,

As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.

The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" 
of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production.   That 
centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many
who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of 
the funding.   And they present very convincing arguments.   (If they 
could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)

It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having 
major impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is 
one example.

I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>
>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
have come to this conclusion.
>>
>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>
>> ?         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>
>> ?         Use of local resources
>>
>> ?         Biochar production by cooking.
>>
>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low 
>> income groups all around the worl
>>
>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
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> ylists.org
>
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> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:27:04 -0800
From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS / and in defence of Paal,: Glocally
	Networked Localised Initiaves ? "centralisation" or for that matter
	"decentralisation"
Message-ID: <C794ED54-C5DE-4350-A2CE-8B19972F1D2F at legacyfound.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Paul, 

Hoping this gets through the filters of this group, you nicely describe the
very philosophical differences I have with the centralize and mass produce
movement at least for these technologies; We have had major success self
sustaining success at that but by the very nature of it the centralized
worlds access to it, such access tends to consume it to little beneficial
end for the local producer/trainer. 

The whole idea of development surely cannot be to simply replicate our
western industrialized model of development on the global community. It's a
model that you in your own profession well know has serious distortions to
the global economy given for example, our resource consumption patterns as
against our proportion of the world's population, and the mere carbon
footprint we make in trying to extoll the virtues of centralized mass
production and distribution ---where such technologies as these can be
managed at the local level. 

It's certainly agreed that  pure localized one-off initiatives are labor
intensive to say the least and so much is lost in the process, as the
learning is not generally transferred by the trainees-trained as trainers,
to emerging groups in their own area. 

To me, its is not about "centralization" but about localization of
initiative and responsibility and localization of reward--globally. Its
about functioning as a mechanic of the process, to encourage this to happen
in such a way as to assure local responsibility and initiative.  The process
is monetised to assure self sustained participation . Everyone works at risk
and reward and responsibility locally but the participants also learn to
share their findings globally 

And for 2014 as initially suggested by many colleagues, we are bent on
assembling  an anthology on the subject by those who have been directly
involved in it.

Knowing we all share the same end goals, all the best to you and the other
many good like minds for the new year. 

Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org  

=============
On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:

Dear ', and all,

As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.

The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent
world is for centralized industrial production.   That centralized model is
certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many who feel that the model
of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing
world. And they control access to most of the funding.   And they present
very convincing arguments.   (If they could not, they would not be in
control of the situation.)

It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major
impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.

I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> 
>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
have come to this conclusion.
>> 
>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>> 
>> ?         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>> 
>> ?         Use of local resources
>> 
>> ?         Biochar production by cooking.
>> 
>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low 
>> income groups all around the worl
>> 
>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
> 
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> 

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http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:23:00 -0500
From: Jeff Davis <jeffdavis0124 at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
	<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, 	ajheggie at gmail.com,
	stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood
	heating in the UK - whole log gasification
Message-ID: <52C37C04.3080901 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi AJH,

Don't bother sending me anything. In time I'll find something and if need be
I'll just flame cut a disc from flat plate. I checked out one of our local
farm supply places looking for a flat disk blade but now that it's winter
all of those types of things are gone or put away. 
Impossible to find anything outside with all this white stuff on the ground.
Looks like I have enough scrap for the frame.

Jeff

On 12/31/2013 06:46 AM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
> [Default] On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 06:53:17 +1300,Doug 
> <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jeff and Paul,
>>
>> It's been a few years since I assembled this concept guillotine design
into a drawing, and I emphasis concept. It was to show a principle of
slicing the fibres as the force of the blade was applied with as much
rotation of the blade possible. How the dimensions are determined can be
proven using a cardboard mock-up and leaves plenty of room for innovation
relating to the features you mention.
>
> We have chippers that use disc blades:
>
> http://www.greenmech.co.uk/greenmech-disc-blades/
>
> They are definitely not supposed to rotate in use but easy enough to 
> mount so they do, the diameter is much smaller than your design at 
> 100mm (4") diameter but they may make a simple entry for a 1/3 
> dimension proof of concept.
>
> I have several but the postage may be prohibitive or I can ask a 
> machine shop here to assemble something given a few more dimensions.
>
> AJH
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
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> oenergylists.org
>
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> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:51:24 -0500
From: Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
	efforts
Message-ID: <3D34C06D-3EDE-4EFC-8DCC-9C47251F97B9 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
mass production and distribution by development industry players.

B

On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Dear Paal, and all,
> 
> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
> 
> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent
world is for centralized industrial production.   That centralized model is
certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many who feel that the model
of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing
world. And they control access to most of the funding.   And they present
very convincing arguments.   (If they could not, they would not be in
control of the situation.)
> 
> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
major impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
example.
> 
> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> 
> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>> 
>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
have come to this conclusion.
>>> 
>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>> 
>>> ?         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>> 
>>> ?         Use of local resources
>>> 
>>> ?         Biochar production by cooking.
>>> 
>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low 
>>> income groups all around the worl
>>> 
>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>> 
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> 
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioener
>> gylists.org
>> 
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
> 
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 11:07:36 -0500
From: Jonathan P Gill <jg45 at icloud.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
	efforts
Message-ID: <A76BEA01-723D-4E93-9B4D-9763644352B0 at icloud.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I am with those who favor decentralization. The internet model is the proof
of the pudding. The internet could never have been built by the centralized
model!

A key aspect of the decentralized model is that it is the most effective way
to leverage the human and financial capital resources at the edges.  These
are far vaster in aggregate than anything the centralized model can arrange.
The simple fact is that the problems being addressed require a level of
resources that ONLY the decentralized internet model can deliver. The  under
resourced central model can only fail, as any badly under capitalized
business knows.

Best Wishes for a Distributed & Decentralized 2014.

Jock

Jock Gill
P. O. Box 3
Peacham, VT 05862

google.com/+JockGill

Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!

> On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
mass production and distribution by development industry players.
> 
> B
> 
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Paal, and all,
>> 
>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>> 
>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized
production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of
the affluent world is for centralized industrial production.   That
centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many
who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
funding.   And they present very convincing arguments.   (If they could not,
they would not be in control of the situation.)
>> 
>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
major impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
example.
>> 
>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step
forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>> 
>>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
>>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate,
but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove
list I have come to this conclusion.
>>>> 
>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on
the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>>> 
>>>> ?         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>>> 
>>>> ?         Use of local resources
>>>> 
>>>> ?         Biochar production by cooking.
>>>> 
>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low 
>>>> income groups all around the worl
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>> 
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>> 
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioene
>>> rgylists.org
>>> 
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>> 
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> 
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioener
>> gylists.org
>> 
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
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> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> 
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:10:08 -0700
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
	efforts
Message-ID: <3D28008C-4B2A-4978-8922-2A38D1CABEC6 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jock,  Ben,  List,  etal

1.  I suggest we are apt to see a mixed mode for stoves:  centralized
manufacture of key parts and decentralized assembly.  This is the World
Stove model  (based on least cost principles  - import duties, quality
control, attractive design,  added services, etc).   I worked twice for a
small local PV company in Zimbabwe, and this was their key - provided much
better service for customers than any of their competitors, for small parts
- not the panels.

2.  Ben:  Deloitte does good work.  I found this one:
http://dupress.com/articles/the-transformation-of-manufacturing/?id=us:em:na
:dup633:read:dup:121713&elq=9ac6469b7bc34fb59a2f895ff968dc1e&elqCampaignId=1
164
  did you have a different cite?

Ron

On Jan 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Jonathan P Gill <jg45 at icloud.com> wrote:

> I am with those who favor decentralization. The internet model is the
proof of the pudding. The internet could never have been built by the
centralized model!
> 
> A key aspect of the decentralized model is that it is the most effective
way to leverage the human and financial capital resources at the edges.
These are far vaster in aggregate than anything the centralized model can
arrange. The simple fact is that the problems being addressed require a
level of resources that ONLY the decentralized internet model can deliver.
The  under resourced central model can only fail, as any badly under
capitalized business knows.
> 
> Best Wishes for a Distributed & Decentralized 2014.
> 
> Jock
> 
> Jock Gill
> P. O. Box 3
> Peacham, VT 05862
> 
> google.com/+JockGill
> 
> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!
> 
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
mass production and distribution by development industry players.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Paal, and all,
>>> 
>>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>>> 
>>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized
production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of
the affluent world is for centralized industrial production.   That
centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many
who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
funding.   And they present very convincing arguments.   (If they could not,
they would not be in control of the situation.)
>>> 
>>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
major impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
example.
>>> 
>>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step
forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>> 
>>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700, 
>>>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate,
but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove
list I have come to this conclusion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on
the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?         Use of local resources
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?         Biochar production by cooking.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the 
>>>>> low income groups all around the worl
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:28:13 -0700
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
	<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood
	heating in	the UK - whole log gasification
Message-ID: <7D9A4A89-D963-4C60-B92F-C77F134BEABA at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jeff, Andrew etal:

   1.  I vaguely recall this subject coming up 10 or more years ago, with
the conclusion that a tool called a "bypass lopper" beat saws.  This Amazon
ad

http://www.amazon.com/True-Temper-Pruning-Solutions-2342530/dp/B000EM2SSQ/re
f=pd_bxgy_lg_text_y

shows at least 3 companies producing tools that seem to be about $15 per
inch of wood material to be sliced (1.5 up to 3 inch).  Mainly designed for
use in the field, but clamping on a bench should be fairly easy for many,
and it might do double duty.

   2.  I really know nothing on this topic - just repeating earlier dialog.

Ron

On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Jeff Davis <jeffdavis0124 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi AJH,
> 
> Don't bother sending me anything. In time I'll find something and if need
be I'll just flame cut a disc from flat plate. I checked out one of our
local farm supply places looking for a flat disk blade but now that it's
winter all of those types of things are gone or put away. Impossible to find
anything outside with all this white stuff on the ground. Looks like I have
enough scrap for the frame.
> 
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> On 12/31/2013 06:46 AM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
>> [Default] On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 06:53:17 +1300,Doug 
>> <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Jeff and Paul,
>>> 
>>> It's been a few years since I assembled this concept guillotine design
into a drawing, and I emphasis concept. It was to show a principle of
slicing the fibres as the force of the blade was applied with as much
rotation of the blade possible. How the dimensions are determined can be
proven using a cardboard mock-up and leaves plenty of room for innovation
relating to the features you mention.
>> 
>> We have chippers that use disc blades:
>> 
>> http://www.greenmech.co.uk/greenmech-disc-blades/
>> 
>> They are definitely not supposed to rotate in use but easy enough to 
>> mount so they do, the diameter is much smaller than your design at 
>> 100mm (4") diameter but they may make a simple entry for a 1/3 
>> dimension proof of concept.
>> 
>> I have several but the postage may be prohibitive or I can ask a 
>> machine shop here to assemble something given a few more dimensions.
>> 
>> AJH
>> 
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>> 
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>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>> 
> 
> 
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