[Stoves] Decentralized Production lines in developing countries.
Otto Formo
terra-matricula at hotmail.com
Thu Jan 2 14:10:45 CST 2014
Dear Anh and JF Rozis,
Stovers
I very much agree about Your approach to reach out to low Income families in Vietnam and Cambodia.........even France.....
The production of charcoal (in Africa) is one solid prove, that desentralized production WORKS and sometimes, to my knowledge, too "WELL", see Haiti.
Production of woodchips and pellets, can even use the same consept for production of charcoal, based on local resources and people linked to mobile units.
Instead of bringing the rawmaterials to the mill, bring the mill and the woodchipper to the source.
The finished products will generate Income, likewise the charcoal production and easily adopt the same transportation systems used by the charcoal traders of today.
I prefer, one thousand small scale entrepeneurs, than ONE Big one.
If one fail, another will take over and make sure production is up to demand and prices likewise.
"I Like a Little Competition"—J. P. Morgan, the answer given when asked whether he disliked competition at the Pujo Committee.
Competition, gentlemen, has never harmed anybody, Monopoly DOES.
Lets go for the desentralized production line in 2014.
Otto
> From: ntanh at greengenvn.com
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:54:59 +0700
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am Anh from Vietnam, I am new in here, been reading for a while and this
> is my first reply.
>
> We are a new start up, private social business in Vietnam making improved
> cook stoves and decentralization is what we are trying to do. The plan is to
> make parts in Hanoi, capital of Vietnam, and ship out to other provinces and
> set up assemblers shop there at local households to put the part together
> and distribute in their area. If this work, with consumption of ~300
> stoves/month we can shift 1 job from city to rural area where the job
> definitely have higher value. Also for the business, we can save tons of
> costs such as workshop, warehouse, transportation,... and have replacement
> parts stored much closer to consumers. Til now, we are close to get the
> first assembler up, there's still a lot of issues but hope it will work out
> fine.
>
> As for fuels, we had plan for a facility making biomass briquettes/pellets
> too but had to cancel it due to the difficulties in securing raw material
> supply. As biomass come from all around and many come in by season (rice
> harvest only happen twice a year to have straw), its very hard and costly to
> collect and store the biomass for production all year. One of our project is
> to equip multiple small scale briquetting machines to local people, teach
> them how to produce and purchase all of their output.
>
> Decentralize has many issues in quality, training, production safety,...
> that much harder to control but sometimes it is the only way that can work
> the economic.
>
> So I guess the absolute answer for Centralization or Decentralization must
> depend on each case or we can just use mixed mode.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anh
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 2:00 AM
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
> (Paul Anderson)
> 2. Re: ETHOS / and in defence of Paal,: Glocally Networked
> Localised Initiaves ? "centralisation" or for that matter
> "decentralisation" (Richard Stanley)
> 3. Re: [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood heating in
> the UK - whole log gasification (Jeff Davis)
> 4. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
> (Ben Blevins)
> 5. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
> (Jonathan P Gill)
> 6. Re: ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
> (Ronal W. Larson)
> 7. Re: [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood heating in
> the UK - whole log gasification (Ronal W. Larson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:34:45 -0600
> From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
> efforts
> Message-ID: <52C35495.1050609 at ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dear Paal, and all,
>
> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
> stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>
> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
> of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model"
> of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That
> centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many
> who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
> issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of
> the funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they
> could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)
>
> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
> major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is
> one example.
>
> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
> wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> > On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> > stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >
> >> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
> after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
> have come to this conclusion.
> >>
> >> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
> activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
> unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
> demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
> simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
> energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
> will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>
> >> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>
> >> ? Use of local resources
> >>
> >> ? Biochar production by cooking.
> >>
> >> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low
> >> income groups all around the worl
> >>
> >> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> > ylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:27:04 -0800
> From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS / and in defence of Paal,: Glocally
> Networked Localised Initiaves ? "centralisation" or for that matter
> "decentralisation"
> Message-ID: <C794ED54-C5DE-4350-A2CE-8B19972F1D2F at legacyfound.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Paul,
>
> Hoping this gets through the filters of this group, you nicely describe the
> very philosophical differences I have with the centralize and mass produce
> movement at least for these technologies; We have had major success self
> sustaining success at that but by the very nature of it the centralized
> worlds access to it, such access tends to consume it to little beneficial
> end for the local producer/trainer.
>
> The whole idea of development surely cannot be to simply replicate our
> western industrialized model of development on the global community. It's a
> model that you in your own profession well know has serious distortions to
> the global economy given for example, our resource consumption patterns as
> against our proportion of the world's population, and the mere carbon
> footprint we make in trying to extoll the virtues of centralized mass
> production and distribution ---where such technologies as these can be
> managed at the local level.
>
> It's certainly agreed that pure localized one-off initiatives are labor
> intensive to say the least and so much is lost in the process, as the
> learning is not generally transferred by the trainees-trained as trainers,
> to emerging groups in their own area.
>
> To me, its is not about "centralization" but about localization of
> initiative and responsibility and localization of reward--globally. Its
> about functioning as a mechanic of the process, to encourage this to happen
> in such a way as to assure local responsibility and initiative. The process
> is monetised to assure self sustained participation . Everyone works at risk
> and reward and responsibility locally but the participants also learn to
> share their findings globally
>
> And for 2014 as initially suggested by many colleagues, we are bent on
> assembling an anthology on the subject by those who have been directly
> involved in it.
>
> Knowing we all share the same end goals, all the best to you and the other
> many good like minds for the new year.
>
> Richard Stanley
> www.legacyfound.org
>
>
>
> =============
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
>
> Dear ', and all,
>
> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
> stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>
> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
> of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent
> world is for centralized industrial production. That centralized model is
> certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model
> of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing
> world. And they control access to most of the funding. And they present
> very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would not be in
> control of the situation.)
>
> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major
> impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.
>
> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
> wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> > On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> > stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >
> >> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
> after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
> have come to this conclusion.
> >>
> >> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
> activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
> unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
> demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
> simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
> energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
> will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>
> >> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>
> >> ? Use of local resources
> >>
> >> ? Biochar production by cooking.
> >>
> >> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low
> >> income groups all around the worl
> >>
> >> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> > ylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:23:00 -0500
> From: Jeff Davis <jeffdavis0124 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, ajheggie at gmail.com,
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood
> heating in the UK - whole log gasification
> Message-ID: <52C37C04.3080901 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi AJH,
>
> Don't bother sending me anything. In time I'll find something and if need be
> I'll just flame cut a disc from flat plate. I checked out one of our local
> farm supply places looking for a flat disk blade but now that it's winter
> all of those types of things are gone or put away.
> Impossible to find anything outside with all this white stuff on the ground.
> Looks like I have enough scrap for the frame.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On 12/31/2013 06:46 AM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
> > [Default] On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 06:53:17 +1300,Doug
> > <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jeff and Paul,
> >>
> >> It's been a few years since I assembled this concept guillotine design
> into a drawing, and I emphasis concept. It was to show a principle of
> slicing the fibres as the force of the blade was applied with as much
> rotation of the blade possible. How the dimensions are determined can be
> proven using a cardboard mock-up and leaves plenty of room for innovation
> relating to the features you mention.
> >
> > We have chippers that use disc blades:
> >
> > http://www.greenmech.co.uk/greenmech-disc-blades/
> >
> > They are definitely not supposed to rotate in use but easy enough to
> > mount so they do, the diameter is much smaller than your design at
> > 100mm (4") diameter but they may make a simple entry for a 1/3
> > dimension proof of concept.
> >
> > I have several but the postage may be prohibitive or I can ask a
> > machine shop here to assemble something given a few more dimensions.
> >
> > AJH
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi
> > oenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:51:24 -0500
> From: Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
> efforts
> Message-ID: <3D34C06D-3EDE-4EFC-8DCC-9C47251F97B9 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
> consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
> mass production and distribution by development industry players.
>
> B
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Dear Paal, and all,
> >
> > As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
> stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
> >
> > The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production
> of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent
> world is for centralized industrial production. That centralized model is
> certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model
> of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing
> world. And they control access to most of the funding. And they present
> very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would not be in
> control of the situation.)
> >
> > It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
> major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
> example.
> >
> > I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward
> wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> > Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> > Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website: www.drtlud.com
> >
> > On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> >> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >>
> >>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but
> after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I
> have come to this conclusion.
> >>>
> >>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized
> activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous
> unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high
> demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for
> simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture
> energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types
> will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>>
> >>> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>>
> >>> ? Use of local resources
> >>>
> >>> ? Biochar production by cooking.
> >>>
> >>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low
> >>> income groups all around the worl
> >>>
> >>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioener
> >> gylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> > ylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 11:07:36 -0500
> From: Jonathan P Gill <jg45 at icloud.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
> efforts
> Message-ID: <A76BEA01-723D-4E93-9B4D-9763644352B0 at icloud.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I am with those who favor decentralization. The internet model is the proof
> of the pudding. The internet could never have been built by the centralized
> model!
>
> A key aspect of the decentralized model is that it is the most effective way
> to leverage the human and financial capital resources at the edges. These
> are far vaster in aggregate than anything the centralized model can arrange.
> The simple fact is that the problems being addressed require a level of
> resources that ONLY the decentralized internet model can deliver. The under
> resourced central model can only fail, as any badly under capitalized
> business knows.
>
> Best Wishes for a Distributed & Decentralized 2014.
>
> Jock
>
> Jock Gill
> P. O. Box 3
> Peacham, VT 05862
>
> google.com/+JockGill
>
> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!
>
> > On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
> consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
> mass production and distribution by development industry players.
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Paal, and all,
> >>
> >> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
> stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
> >>
> >> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized
> production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of
> the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That
> centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many
> who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
> issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
> funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not,
> they would not be in control of the situation.)
> >>
> >> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
> major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
> example.
> >>
> >> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step
> forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >> Website: www.drtlud.com
> >>
> >>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> >>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate,
> but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove
> list I have come to this conclusion.
> >>>>
> >>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
> decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on
> the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
> the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
> fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
> agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
> different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>>>
> >>>> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>>>
> >>>> ? Use of local resources
> >>>>
> >>>> ? Biochar production by cooking.
> >>>>
> >>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low
> >>>> income groups all around the worl
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Stoves mailing list
> >>>
> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>
> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioene
> >>> rgylists.org
> >>>
> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioener
> >> gylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> > ylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:10:08 -0700
> From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
> efforts
> Message-ID: <3D28008C-4B2A-4978-8922-2A38D1CABEC6 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Jock, Ben, List, etal
>
> 1. I suggest we are apt to see a mixed mode for stoves: centralized
> manufacture of key parts and decentralized assembly. This is the World
> Stove model (based on least cost principles - import duties, quality
> control, attractive design, added services, etc). I worked twice for a
> small local PV company in Zimbabwe, and this was their key - provided much
> better service for customers than any of their competitors, for small parts
> - not the panels.
>
> 2. Ben: Deloitte does good work. I found this one:
> http://dupress.com/articles/the-transformation-of-manufacturing/?id=us:em:na
> :dup633:read:dup:121713&elq=9ac6469b7bc34fb59a2f895ff968dc1e&elqCampaignId=1
> 164
> did you have a different cite?
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Jonathan P Gill <jg45 at icloud.com> wrote:
>
> > I am with those who favor decentralization. The internet model is the
> proof of the pudding. The internet could never have been built by the
> centralized model!
> >
> > A key aspect of the decentralized model is that it is the most effective
> way to leverage the human and financial capital resources at the edges.
> These are far vaster in aggregate than anything the centralized model can
> arrange. The simple fact is that the problems being addressed require a
> level of resources that ONLY the decentralized internet model can deliver.
> The under resourced central model can only fail, as any badly under
> capitalized business knows.
> >
> > Best Wishes for a Distributed & Decentralized 2014.
> >
> > Jock
> >
> > Jock Gill
> > P. O. Box 3
> > Peacham, VT 05862
> >
> > google.com/+JockGill
> >
> > Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!
> >
> > On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:51 PM, Ben Blevins <hspben at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
> consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
> mass production and distribution by development industry players.
> >>
> >> B
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Paal, and all,
> >>>
> >>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are
> stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
> >>>
> >>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized
> production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of
> the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That
> centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many
> who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
> issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
> funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not,
> they would not be in control of the situation.)
> >>>
> >>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
> major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
> example.
> >>>
> >>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step
> forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> >>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >>> Website: www.drtlud.com
> >>>
> >>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> >>>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate,
> but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove
> list I have come to this conclusion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
> decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on
> the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
> the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
> fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
> agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
> different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ? Use of local resources
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ? Biochar production by cooking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the
> >>>>> low income groups all around the worl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Stoves mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>>
> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioen
> >>>> ergylists.org
> >>>>
> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
> site:
> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Stoves mailing list
> >>>
> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>
> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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> >>> rgylists.org
> >>>
> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >>
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> >> gylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
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> >
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> > ylists.org
> >
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> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:28:13 -0700
> From: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Gasification] Chip Guillotine was Re: Wood
> heating in the UK - whole log gasification
> Message-ID: <7D9A4A89-D963-4C60-B92F-C77F134BEABA at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Jeff, Andrew etal:
>
> 1. I vaguely recall this subject coming up 10 or more years ago, with
> the conclusion that a tool called a "bypass lopper" beat saws. This Amazon
> ad
>
> http://www.amazon.com/True-Temper-Pruning-Solutions-2342530/dp/B000EM2SSQ/re
> f=pd_bxgy_lg_text_y
>
> shows at least 3 companies producing tools that seem to be about $15 per
> inch of wood material to be sliced (1.5 up to 3 inch). Mainly designed for
> use in the field, but clamping on a bench should be fairly easy for many,
> and it might do double duty.
>
> 2. I really know nothing on this topic - just repeating earlier dialog.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Jeff Davis <jeffdavis0124 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi AJH,
> >
> > Don't bother sending me anything. In time I'll find something and if need
> be I'll just flame cut a disc from flat plate. I checked out one of our
> local farm supply places looking for a flat disk blade but now that it's
> winter all of those types of things are gone or put away. Impossible to find
> anything outside with all this white stuff on the ground. Looks like I have
> enough scrap for the frame.
> >
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > On 12/31/2013 06:46 AM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
> >> [Default] On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 06:53:17 +1300,Doug
> >> <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Jeff and Paul,
> >>>
> >>> It's been a few years since I assembled this concept guillotine design
> into a drawing, and I emphasis concept. It was to show a principle of
> slicing the fibres as the force of the blade was applied with as much
> rotation of the blade possible. How the dimensions are determined can be
> proven using a cardboard mock-up and leaves plenty of room for innovation
> relating to the features you mention.
> >>
> >> We have chippers that use disc blades:
> >>
> >> http://www.greenmech.co.uk/greenmech-disc-blades/
> >>
> >> They are definitely not supposed to rotate in use but easy enough to
> >> mount so they do, the diameter is much smaller than your design at
> >> 100mm (4") diameter but they may make a simple entry for a 1/3
> >> dimension proof of concept.
> >>
> >> I have several but the postage may be prohibitive or I can ask a
> >> machine shop here to assemble something given a few more dimensions.
> >>
> >> AJH
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> > ylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1
> *************************************
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