[Stoves] [biochar] Re: Chaff cutters and wood choppers

Mon Jan 6 12:46:17 CST 2014

Dear Paul

The request is like the question: "How long is a piece of string"? :-) There are many different potential chaff cutter and wood chopper designs. There are as many as there are "potential applications." 

Some of the variables may include:
* Production rate required.
* Manual or machine power
* Feed material
* Desired "cut product size and shape.
* Need for screening and sizing of product or not?
* Portability
* Durability
* Potential annual sales for each specific product
* Permissible price for a product or specific device to accomplish a specific task
* Etc.

These variables, and the "necessary features" required, must be specified before it is possible to configure a suitable design and to estimate a cost "at the factory gate." 

So, if you required a "cutter" or "chopper" to make a fuel suitable for TLUD's, you should specify all the relevant properties and features that would be necessary for a Designer to configure a product design that would meet your needs. However, the Designer should know how much the Customer could afford to pay for the final product, so that he will know if it is even possible to build a product that will be affordable to the Target Customer. Additionally, the Designer needs to know the expected sales volume per year, so that he can figure in the economies of scale in developing prices.

Best wishes,

Kevin

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Anderson 
  To: Mark Ludlow ; biochar at yahoogroups.com ; 'energiesnaturals' ; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' ; 'Bob Fairchild' ; 'Ron Vanetten' 
  Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [biochar] Re: [Stoves] Chaff cutters and wood choppers

  Mark,

  I am not good at estimating price points, and the number of variations (feeder rollers, flywheel, thickness of sticks) are so numerous that to say a price without specifying all the rest might not be very realistic.    So, as a NON-engineer, I request assistance from other readers about price vs features.   

  Even if I purchased one for where I live (Illinois, USA), my usage would be limited, and not related to amounts like tons.   And to export from Mexico to Africa would be in the same league as importing cutters from India, meaning: difficult.

  I would like to know what could be accomplished at different price points.   Is that a reasonable place to start?   (I hope others will comment.   And maybe something can be accomplished.)

  Mark, where are you in Mexico, and when did you move there?   Greetings to your wife.

  Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.comOn 1/4/2014 2:23 AM, Mark Ludlow wrote:

    Hi Paul,

    It would be useful if you could state a price point that would make equipment like this realistic. The machine Rolf describes is typical, but I appreciate the fact that limbs and trunks are fed at an angle. Shearing at an angle reduces the shear force required and thus increases the output per unit of power input. I could build a no-frills (except for safety systems) chipper like the one Rolf describes, here in México, at cost, if you are interested. México is the productivity-adjusted, lowest-cost producer in the world, as of 2014. Yet many are unemployed.

    If you tell me some number, say $/MT of green input, this gives us a target to design against. I think that energy-storage (flywheel) to accommodate impulse loading may work, but the amount of energy required is easily calculated and is reflected in the nominal hourly-input rating.

    I will support development costs (as a non-profit) if you will tell me there is a market for XXX Machines at XXX Cost on the horizon.

    Buen Viajo en Africa!

    Mark

    From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson
    Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 11:29 PM
    To: energiesnaturals; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Bob Fairchild; Ron Vanetten; biochar at yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [biochar] Re: [Stoves] Chaff cutters and wood choppers

    Rolf, Crispin and all,

    Very good reports.

    It would be very nice to have a summary of the manufacturers and models (with price and cutting attributes).

    ASSUMING that some one or a few of these devices (and not toooo expensive) can do the stick and small branch cutting, we need to get some of them into action in places where we can use the fuel for the stoves.

    Any assistance to accomplish this would be appreciated.

    Paul    

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072Website:  www.drtlud.comOn 1/3/2014 1:19 AM, energiesnaturals wrote:

      The Jensen Buschhacker is a kind of disc chopper wth only 1 blade sopported in front of the actual disc and thus free to let up to 12 cm enter the space between fixed counter knife and the rotating blade. The wood enters horizontally, but at that 30 or so angle to the disc's plane. The cutting length is given by the speed of the advance rollers/cylinders vs. the rotational speed of the disc as usual.

      These devices are no toys, the biggest of them cut nearly 20 cm of oak branches!

      My 60 y.o.Buschhacker munches through 15 cm of softwood and 12 cm of extremely hard dry GREENOAK (quercus ilex) and wild olive. And this is the middle model of 3.

      Of course you wouldnn't want to lift these branches high up to insert them into a garden chipper type, thus the horizontal cutting angle.There must be a series of photos on the bioenergy list somewhere, but i cannot find it from where i am right now.

      Rolf

      Enviado desde Samsung tablet

      CPP GMail <crispinpigott at gmail.com> escribió:
      When the blade impacts the wood/branches are they pointed downwards? That would tend to pull the feedstock in as well as provide the bevel cutting effect.  

      Thanks 

      Crispin 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: "energiesnaturals" <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
      To: "stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
      Sent: 3 January, 2014 12:54 AM
      Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chaff cutters and wood choppers

      Nail trimmers indeed, but only if you intend it.I have worked with them time ago and as long as you put the alfalfa/hay/straw right on the conveyor chain and let the advance cylinder in front of the cutting wheel do it's job, there is not much danger to get caught...

      Btw, they still build them in Spain as i inquired for Christa some month ago.

      The same principle applies to the Jensen Buschhacker i described earlier.

      Not only has it 35deg angle between advance rollers and disc plane, but the blade position in the disc cuts much like you would cut through aloaf of bread with a knife.

      This enables the Jensen to perform very well with only 12-15 hp tractors on the pto.

      My Laimet Hp 21 also saves energy cutting, but we strongly miss the advance rollers.

       We are actually busy implementing them together with a pickup system for prunings and forest slash for the Laimet and two modern Jensens.

      Guess for what!

      Rolf 

      Enviado desde Samsung tablet

      mtrevor at ntamar.net escribió:
      The one at the link above is really advanced
      when it comes to safety which is good
      because this sort of machine was responsible for more lost fingers
      than any other piece of farm equipment.

      Impressive piece of machinery and EXACTLY my immediate reaction--- Nail 
      trimmer extreme!!!

      M Trevor 

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