[Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts

Ronal W. Larson rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sat Jan 11 13:46:46 CST 2014 

Teddy et al:

    I have just visited your web site and was very impressed.  You obviously have a big concern about charcoal being produced badly - so thank for that.  I like your comments on where/how to manufacture stoves.  

   You also look like a great company to manufacture char-making stoves.  Is that possibly on the horizon for cookswelljikos?

Ron


On Jan 11, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Richard, Salaams, 
> 
> I did meet Charles briefly once, but that was many years ago - I do try to stay in touch as much as my work schedule allows with as many other stovies in Kenya as I can but we are all a busy lot and dont get to see each other enough. 
> 
> In regards to your email above, I have found that at the end of the day, whether or not the the stove was made in either of the manufacturing systems discussed, it remains one of the last things on a long list of reasons why my customers part with their hard earned money to buy a Cookswell stove. 
> Cheers,
> 
> Teddy 
> 
> 
> 
> Cookswell Jikos
> www.cookswell.co.ke
> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
> Mobile: +254 700 380 009 
> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
> Habari gani, Teddy,
>  Did you ever hear of Charles Onyando over in Kangemi? He passed away a few years ago but was very active with stoves himself and he worked with your father for a while in testing and design. 
> Richard Stanley
> www.legacyfound.org
> Indani ya nchi ya US, kwa sasa
> 
> On Jan 11, 2014, at 4:27 AM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
> 
> Dear All, 
> 
> This is a very interesting discussion that I have been happily following during my travels this last week. I find that discussions like these help to define the complexities of the biomass cookstove sector. I often wonder what other non-electric domestic cooking appliances attract such passionate players and great thinkers in their respective product lines. 
> 
> I personally have been lucky enough to have been somewhat involved in both ends of this question of centralized and decentralized manufacture of cookstoves - my late dad, Dr. Max Kinyanjui, would tell me of how once he almost quite the KCJ (Kenya Ceramic Jiko) project when centralized production was initially suggested, and thankfully he did not. Today I am currently looking into designing flat pack systems for KCJ's and other associated sheet metal cut outs ( charcoal making drum kilns, charcoal baking ovens etc.) that can be locally assembled by networks of existing manufactures; this is mainly to reduce raw material transport and waste issues, increase standardization levels, increase customer/stove maker interactions and to reduce end user costs. 
> 
> I feel that one major design achievement to enhance stove dissemination (but is perhaps a bit bad business) is to create something that is so useful and easy to use, understand and make money off of, to huge range of potential customers that replication, sometimes for the better, many times for the worse, snowballs the technology into the kitchens of the ones needing it most. 
> 
> To the Cookswell/Kinyanjui family, seeing our inventions and designs being copied and sold in many countries by many levels of manufacturers is one of the most satisfactory feelings of being good stove makers. We also very much hope that more people will also begin to take the time to appreciate the value of conducting a holistic manufacturing process that gives due consideration to the life cycle analysis of the product(s) in question.
> 
> And as we continue exploring not only the stove, but the entire ''seed-to-ash'' cycle of household biomass energy, I would just like to send a vote of thanks to all those who actively contribute and manage this list serve, it is very good stove reading. 
> 
> Happy new years and all the best to all, 
> 
> Teddy Kinyanjui 
> 
> Sustainability Director 
> 
> Cookswell Jikos
> www.cookswell.co.ke
> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
> Mobile: +254 700 380 009 
> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Ranyee Chiang <rchiang at cleancookstoves.org> wrote:
> Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS.  A good way to frame this discussion may be to think about ways that the different types of efforts can be integrated together, or how they can learn from each other.  Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of efforts are important and require different types of tailored support.  It would be useful to hear some discussion about the specifics of the tailored support that is needed in each case.  And overall, I think that a discussion focused "and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ranyee
> ________________________________________
> From: ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu <ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu> on behalf of Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
> Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
> 
> Ben,
> 
> Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was
> it, and to whom?   Any viable contacts that could be reached for further
> clarification?
> 
> In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far
> fewer funds.   Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that
> favor those who can lobby and have the money already.    Because that is
> not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized
> efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
> 
> Paul
> 
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> 
> On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
> > Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of mass production and distribution by development industry players.
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Paal, and all,
> >>
> >> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
> >>
> >> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production.   That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC  and WB and many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the funding.   And they present very convincing arguments.   (If they could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)
> >>
> >> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major impacts.   Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.
> >>
> >> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> >>
> >> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
> >>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I have come to this conclusion.
> >>>>
> >>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
> >>>>
> >>>> ·         Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
> >>>>
> >>>> ·         Use of local resources
> >>>>
> >>>> ·         Biochar production by cooking.
> >>>>
> >>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low income groups all around the worl
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
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> >>
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