[Stoves] Testing stoves for their intended use

Wed Jan 22 01:47:29 CST 2014

Hi Paul,

This is indeed a very interesting issue you have brought up. Here are some
of my personal anecdotes in regards to this in Kenya.

Foremost, we have currently been having a bit of a run around with the
National stove testing facility, KIRDI, in regards to testing our charcoal
ovens. As ovens are not really made for boiling water but the tests for
biomass stoves are typically based on boiling water we seem to have reached
an impasse on which way to go. Im thinking we just roast chickens and bake
bread, but I imagine that would just be more delicious then scientific. Any
suggestions on alternative oven tests would be much appreciated.

Then there also is the issue of how in the world do we begin to afford test
the other products (that are already being copied by jua kali) like the
charcoal patio space heaters (4 models) and the open nyama choma BBQs and
commercial multi KCJ's (comes in 2,3-4,5 burner arrangements) and the
charcoal mini-tandoor ovens (2 sizes) and the double KCJ burner with the
warmer (2 sizes) and the animal like charcoal BBQs (6 types so far) and
then each with variations of size and then with/without the optional
attachments. This is considering that the charge appx. 60,000ksh (700USD)
per test and they take months and will probably need to be individually
designed etc.

We try our best with our own in house testing (largely based on things iv
learned from my dad and the bioenergysite info) and we work hard with our
customers who after all, more or less are the ones who fund, design, test
and market our new products.

And one last small thing is the testing of the KCJ... how is that
inevitably the particular KCJ tested always somehow seems to be the one
that looks like it was made by a drunk fundi using old rusty sheet metal
and then run over by a herd of cows and was lit using wet charcoal? If
anyone on this listserve would like to test a real original Kenya Ceramic
Jiko, made to the exact original specs, please contact us to get one on
loan, completely for free if you pay shipping. (and testing.)

All the best, and if anyone has any thoughts on how to test biomass
convection ovens, please let me know.

Teddy

*Cookswell Jikos*
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 009
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya

On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

>  Dear all,
>
> First, I will thank Michael for his reply.
>
> Second, I will exclaim my shock that NOBODY ELSE made any reply.   What
> does that tell us?
>
> "Silence means consent."   That would mean that you all agree with me, and
> with Crispin.   Sir Thomas Moore used that argument, and then they chopped
> off his head.
>
> Or maybe you are waiting until ETHOS to bring up the issues?
>
> Or maybe you are in such profound disagreement that you are in shock that
> someone would suggest that the standard WBT might not be sufficient?
>
> Or maybe you just want this topic to disappear?
>
> Anyway, ETHOS is virtually upon us; many start their travel within a day
> from now.   Let's hope that some discussion, whether in agreement or
> disagreement, can be heard there AND on the Listserv.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 1/20/2014 12:10 AM, d.michael.shafer at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Amen.
>
>  This is a wonderful, specific statement of a general problem that has
> plagued the stove "movement" for a long time. If you haven't sat next to
> the woman in her own kitchen and cooked with her, you don't know diddly
> about cook stoves and anything you do in the arena might as well be
> shooting in the wood smoke.
>
>  M
>
>
>   *Michael Shafer* Director , Warm Heart
>  Tel: + 1-732-745-9295  | Mobile: + 66(85)-199-2958
>  d.michael.shafer at gmail.com  |  www.warmheartworldwide.org
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Stovers,
>>
>> The snip below from Crispin raises good questions that should be
>> discussed, at ETHOS and on the Listserv and at the testing centers:
>> On 1/15/2014 3:29 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>>  There are so many sectors of the stove market that we should prepare
>> appliances for and it is good to be reminded now and then that the local
>> use to which a stove might be put could be very much unlike ‘cooking’.
>>
>> In Indonesia people routinely have 4 or 5 different cooking devices which
>> they use when they are preparing ‘that food’, just like I do at home. Each
>> one can be called a stove, but they are specialised, really, and do
>> something things really well that he others do not.
>>
>> Cecil Cook in his investigations last year into the use of fuels and
>> stove found people in Central Java (where is about to be launched an
>> improved stove rollout) were very adept at picking particular fuels for
>> certain purposes, as well as using multiple stoves during any month. Come
>> fuels were used only for high power and some for keeping a fire *just*going for a long time.
>>
>>   Basically, a stove (any stove) should be tested in relation to its
>> intended and highly likely use.
>>
>> This testing should NOT be the only testing.   Certainly testing with
>> accepted standard test procedures should be INCLUDED so that stoves can be
>> compared, especially if the stove is to be for "general" cooking practices,
>> not the specialized ones such as those of the Indonesian cooks.
>>
>> But standard testing should NOT be the only testing if a stove has a
>> special purpose, such as boiling water for drinking (nobody simmers their
>> drinking water!!!)
>>
>> Without BOTH types of testing, the stove APPROVERS would only be able to
>> judge according to the standard results.
>>
>> By saying "approvers" I am referring to:
>>
>> A.  the guardians of the Tier system based on only the complete tests
>>
>> and
>>
>> B.  The actual cooks who could quickly reject an "approved stove for
>> general usage" when they know very well that a NOT-APPROVED stove does
>> their specific cooking task so much better.
>>
>> A or B.   Make your choice.    Or perhaps the guardians of "A" should
>> include tests (or separate REPORTED results) specific to some very common
>> types of cooking, such as boiling water, or high-heat frying, or just the
>> simmer part (which can be accomplished very well by a smaller version of
>> many of our stoves).
>>
>> Essentially, if these important specifics are not provided, much of the
>> system of stove testing with the standard WBT will be ignored.
>>
>> Or worse, the standard WBT results could mean that favoritism for some
>> stove manufacturers (for funding and for Tier qualification) could result
>> is the reduced availability (or even banning) of some excellent stoves that
>> serve important but specific tasks.
>>
>> I hope this is discussed at ETHOS, on the Listserv, and beyond.
>>
>> Paul     (in Tanzania, on Saturday at an Adventist facility, so sort of
>> like a day off in order to catch up.  But I will go to villages tomorrow,
>> and then home in time for ETHOS and the Aprovecho Open House.)
>>
>>
>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>
>>
>
>
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