[Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )
Willem J. Kuipers
wk at tmgroup.nl
Thu Mar 6 09:44:17 CST 2014
Dear all
I have done tests with HD briquettes made of hardwood sawdust in the Philips
Stove. They burn excellent however getting them started is difficult. I
have put the briquettes on top of burning pellets, which works excellent
as the airflow is fine. Adding pellets on burning pellets does not work.
I have seen a Indian hydraulic press making 25 mm briquettes, that might
even be better ??
Good to share all this knowledge as we are firm believers of avoiding wood
and built up a sustainable renewable fuel business. I am doing testing with
the rose waste in two weeks using the ecoworxx pellet machine. See
http://ecoworxx.com/pm-22-e/ I have seen this machine working: perfect !!!
Please find attached a quote for a chinese pellet machine which runs off
the tractor PTO. The price is 1275 $ C+F Dar es Salam. At that price not
a big risk to test.
Rgds
Willem
Op 06-03-14 16:02, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> schreef:
>
> Dear Stovers and other Friends,
>
> I am in agreement with Bjarne. It appears (yet still to be totally proven)
> that the larger diameter (such as 60 mm = 2.3 inches) densified biomass is
> probably a better way to proceed into larger production with mechanization in
> the developing societies.
>
> Note that "densified" is with higher compression (including the crushing of
> cell structures and the "melting" of lignin that gives the glossy outer
> coating on DENSIFIED pellets and "processed logs" or densified
> briquettes).
>
> Note: IMO, the term "briquette" is used differently by various people who
> do not distinguish between the high-density and the low-density briquettes and
> the processes to make them.
>
> Similarly, there can be high and low density "pucks" or disks or wedges.
> Maybe HD and LD can be used to distinguish between the two main types.
>
> For example, LD briquettes and pucks are made with manual presses and jacks
> for lifting vehicles. These LD processed fuels can also be great as fuel
> (especially for TLUD gasifiers) if that is what the budget and circumstances
> allow for production. Bjarne and I are NOT commenting against the LD
> precessed fuels. We are commenting about the HD processed fuels, and are
> stating that the larger (60mm) diameter fuels are probably the more practical
> (lower cost and less maintenance) way to make HD processed biomass fuels.
> Clearly pellets (HD and about 6 to 8 mm diameter) have an important role and
> are commercially viable, but that is in the context of developed and affluent
> societies.
>
> As I have commented before, when the HD processed biomass "log" is extruded
> by a ram press (not by an auger), the log is essentially a series of disks
> that are jammed together. The disks come out hot and slide along a cooking
> rack perhaps 5 meters long. And while still hot (meaning closer to the
> press), they can be gently tapped and they will break apart into very clean
> disks measuring about 60 mm diameter and 10 to 15 mm thick. If the fuel user
> needs smaller pieces at the time to cooking the meal, the disks can be easily
> broken by hand or hit with a rock or piece of log to become halves and
> quarters. For Awamu in Uganda, two different makers of HD "logs" have
> provided us with disks when requested.
>
> Also stated in earlier messages, inside a TLUD gasifier, the disks can be
> place vertically (on edge) and have a superior air flow than if they are
> placed horizontally.
>
> Comments in support or contrary would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
> On 3/6/2014 1:32 AM, Bjarne Laustsen wrote:
>
>
>> To Paul and others
>> Fuel supply can be big business but it does not need to be.
>> We have been making pellets for gasification stoves.
>> The pellets in itself work very well if they are in sizes from 6 mm or 8 mm
>> in diameter, they have been burning very good in our gasification stoves.
>> The problems in relation with pellets for gasification stoves are how to
>> find good and sustainable pellet presses for producing the pellets.
>> The slides from the presentation from Crane Wang MUYANG illustrate this very
>> well. Because the pellet press they shows are big and expensive equipments
>> that will do a good job, however they are outside the financial reach of most
>> of us.
>> We have experiences with some of the smaller and cheaper pellets mills, and
>> they are not able to produce pellets in a sustainable way. They are designed
>> for feed pellet production, and they aretherefore not able to produce fuel
>> pellets in an economical way.
>>
>> I have noted that in China they are mainly working with pellets for fuel
>> production while in India they are working with briquettes.
>>
>> For me to see the cuber will still be an to expensive solution.
>>
>> The solution for us will be to use the Indian type of mechanical piston
>> briquette presses that can make briquettes with diameter of 60 mm and get
>> attached a puck cutter on that so the briquettes are cut out in pucks. Such
>> pucks will be a good fuel for gasification stoves. And the equipment is
>> reasonable in price so it is possible for many to finance such a solution.
>>
>> These briquette presses can work with most types of agricultural residues,
>> so we at the same can shift to using renewable biomass for cooking and in
>> this way also contribute to reducing the deforestation.
>>
>> Bjarne Laustsen
>>
>> On 3/5/2014 10:47 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>> Slide #9 of the presentation at the site given below is interesting.
>>> Those cubes should work very well in gasifiers of many different sizes.
>>>
>>> I was impressed by the other slides that show the very large sizes of the
>>> pelletizers and cubers. If supply of raw materials is sufficient, large
>>> machines seem so much more appropriate than 100 or 1000 small units. Fuel
>>> supply is BIG business.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2014 9:58 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Michael,
>>>>
>>>> .....
>>>>
>>>> We saw some examples of cubers in a Beijing(?) stove exposition some time
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>> Also check this:
>>>> http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>
>>>> Rolf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:36:47 -0600
>>>> Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com> <mailto:memahowald at hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely correct Paul !
>>>>> Deforestation happens all over the world with the lack of fire wood.
>>>>> There simply is not enough dry sources of trees or waste from them even
>>>>> for TLUD's to keep even poor consumers interested in them.
>>>>> We know vetiver grass has the highest photosynthetic activity of any
>>>>> plant, making it the most renewable energy source on the planet. We just
>>>>> have to densify the grass into pellets at a cost that people can afford.
>>>>> The only way we can do this is to eliminate the cost of diesel fuel to run
>>>>> the generator to make the pellets.
>>>>> We are planning on using a downdraft gasifier for gas to accomplish
>>>>> this. We just have to perfect this process and size it for a portable
>>>>> pelleting plant that can be taken to the fields they grow it.
>>>>> When we perfect this it will be capable to work everywhere in the world
>>>>> that needs clean cook stoves.
>>>>> If you want to see what we are doing check out
>>>>> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy
>>>>> and http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael E. MahowaldPresident
>>>>> Haiti Reconstruction International952-220-6814
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:43:31 -0600
>>>>> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; biochar at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: [Stoves] The wood and char and fuel "debate" (was a long time
>>>>> ago called Re: Request for technology proposals - Clean Stove Initiative,
>>>>> Indonesia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Crispin, Ron and all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is interesting reading the back and forth between Ron and
>>>>> Crispin. I emphasize two paragraphs from Crispin,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2014 10:10 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There
>>>>> is no dispute between us whatsoever as to the energy
>>>>> consumption: the energy remaining in the char represents
>>>>> energy not liberated from the fuel consumed.
>>>>> The
>>>>> important question is not what we want, but what the
>>>>> customer of the test result wants. They are not asking how
>>>>> much energy was used when cooking, they asked how much fuel
>>>>> was consumed. The answer is of course different if there is
>>>>> char remaining and that char is not Œfuel¹ to the same stove
>>>>> for the next fire.
>>>>> For the vast majority of "customers"
>>>>> (including governments that
>>>>> want to reduce or reverse deforestation), the important question is
>>>>> "how much wood is burned." The interests are highly related to
>>>>> WOOD, specifically related to TREES, not even counting sawdust that
>>>>> goes into pellets.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, because TLUD stoves are VERY GOOD at burning NON-wood biomass,
>>>>> the wood saved can be 100%. And we still get the char.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerning fuel and wood and non-wood and char and other such
>>>>> measurements, the real problems can come from rankings and Tiers and
>>>>> o
>>>>> ther reports that could give excellent stoves some poor results
>>>>> because the "authorities" are defining fuel as being exclusively
>>>>> wood, as in trees and woodlands that need to be protected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If we could get past that "imposed intellectual construct" of fuel
>>>>> being wood, we could make more progress about some types of biomass
>>>>> stoves being even better than good for the environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rest assured that the advocates of alcohol and kerosene and other
>>>>> NON-biomass fuels are pointing out that their stoves help minimize
>>>>> deforestation/enviromental degradation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Biomass that is NOT WOOD needs to be recognized as being favorable
>>>>> for saving trees, and credit given to the stoves that can use those
>>>>> non-wood biomass fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> AND that recognition and credit needs to be EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE
>>>>> REPORTS ABOUT FUEL CONSUMPTION.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In some ways, this is all just another discussion about why the
>>>>> reported results of any stove testing need much explanation (which
>>>>> is usually not provided) and why the results are so easy to ignore
>>>>> as being poorly related to the realities of people and their stoves
>>>>> and their fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope we can do better in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> (still another week to go on my vacation trip to Brazil,
>>>>> so I probably will not be sending replies.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>>>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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