[Stoves] Retort can inside TLUD gasifiers Re: Fine particles as fuel in TLUDs
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue Feb 17 09:45:23 CST 2015
Dear Anh,
Thanks for the description. Could you please provide a few photos?
Or some diagrams, with dimensions (approx.)?
Discussing this is getting me thinking about variations.
Thanks.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 2/15/2015 6:15 PM, Anh Nguyen wrote:
>
> Dear Paul and all,
>
> I'd like to share a few more things about our biomass boxes:
>
> - we only put boxes on the side of combustion chamber so it only use
> heat transfer sideway, which cant be used fir cooking anyway. This
> also help reducing stove out cover temperature a bit.
>
> - if stove burn for 1 hr, it can turn any thing inside the biomass box
> to good char with our normal box, 5cm thick: ruce husk, saw dust,
> leaves, small stick (1cm diametter),.... even not so dry naterial.
> Experimental box of 7-8cm can do fine with dry material but cant
> handle fresh garden waste.
>
> - we place the gas release holes below sencondary aiy inlet to mix
> gas- air better. With 4 hole,1cm dia on top, at peak time, the box
> can give the flame tall enough to touch pot bottom, which is 10-13cm
> above. Saw dust that hand pressed inside the box can burn for 20-30min
>
> Regards,
>
> Anh
>
> On Feb 12, 2015 11:53 PM, "Paul Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu
> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
> To all, both Stovers and Biochar makers.
>
> I thank Marc and Jock and Kirk (and probably some others,
> including Peter Hirst with his barrel-size unit, on video) for
> their efforts with a retort can inside of a TLUD gasifier. (see
> some messages below). I mention the following topics for
> consideration.
>
> 1. Where inside the TLUD is the retort can to be placed? The
> retort needs heat to it, but the TLUD _heat _INSIDE THE FUEL BED
> is only at the top and then progressing slowly downward with the
> MPF (Migratory Pyrolytic Front), meaning that the bottom of the
> can does NOT get heated until the MPF is getting close.
>
> Therefore, should the retort can be above the fuel level but below
> the entry of secondary air? Maybe not, because the can and its
> contents could chill the rising gases and hinder their
> combustion. But maybe this is not so crucial?
>
> Maybe the retort can is only in the upper half(?) of the TLUD fuel?
>
> Or maybe this does not make much difference?
>
> 2. I like Jock's idea of the outlet holes being upward in the
> retort can. He reports seeing the small jets of flame. That
> means that the retort gases are entering into an environment with
> sufficient secondary air for combustion. This also is then an
> issue of the placement of the retort.
>
> Please note that instead of outlet holes there could be an outlet
> Channel (pipe, tube, etc) that takes the retort gases to a
> different place. Remember that retort gases come out in a
> sequence of types that start with water vapor, then mixed gases,
> and finally the pyrolytic gases that are combustible. Retort
> processes do not occur the same way as TLUD processes.
>
> 3. Placing the retort canister ABOVE the secondary air entry
> provides the maximum heat to the retort. Maybe it could be in
> the "riser" section, or up where the cooking pot would otherwise
> be placed. This has been done in barrel-size units by Doug
> Clayton and Hugh McLaughlin and is on video. The main problem
> encountered is the difficulty / danger of handling full barrels
> well above ground level, sometimes full of hot char.
>
> 4. Of course, issues of char qualities need to be considered.
> About putting fines (very small) biomass into retorts, it is known
> that the transfer of heat from the edges to the center is HINDERED
> if the materials are too packed together.
>
> Many of us are looking forward to further reports on this topic.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
> On 2/12/2015 6:35 AM, Jock Gill wrote:
>> Marc,
>>
>> I have also done this. I place feedstock in a smaller can that
>> only has a few holes in its lid to allow the pyrolytic gases to
>> escape and burn. I then place this, as you did, in a larger can
>> used as a ND TLUD and surround the smaller can with fuel. This
>> creates a retort within a TLUD. The TLUD will burn some of the
>> charcoal it has made in order to finish the pyrolysis in the
>> inner retort can.
>>
>> I find, contrary to the given wisdom, that the inner "retort" can
>> be placed with in the TLUD with the gas escape holes facing UP.
>> This allows students to see the gas come out and ignite. If they
>> can see the flames created by the gas coming out of the retort it
>> much more powerful educational experience.
>>
>> Well done,
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> Jock Gill
>> P.O. Box 3
>> Peacham, VT 05862
>>
>> Cell: (617) 449-8111
>>
>> google.com/+JockGill <http://google.com/+JockGill>
>>
>> :> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:
>>
>> Via iPad
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 5:07 AM, Marquitusus <marquitusus at hotmail.com
>> <mailto:marquitusus at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, in the mids December I consulted the list about my problems
>>> with almond husks as TLUD's fuel.
>>> The problem is the smaller particles of this fuel obstruct the
>>> primary air flow and the pyrolisys stops.
>>>
>>> Kirk suggested me using the "can method": just screening the
>>> fuel and use the smaller fraction for filling a can that will be
>>> put inside the reactor, surrounded by the large particles
>>> fraction. I recently tried this method, and it really worked!
>>> You can see pics here:
>>> http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines/cuines-gasificadores/
>>>
>>> So, this opens the door for using any size of fuel in a ND-TLUD,
>>> from rice hulls to saw dust or any other little particles fuel (
>>> I understand that in a FD-TLUD is not necessary, because of the
>>> forced air draft). Also, this method can allow to shorten the
>>> size of the chimneys or risers, because less draft is necessary.
>>>
>>> The bad news are we need a can (that is exposed to high temps
>>> that will deteriorate it) and we need to previously screen the
>>> fuel, but I think these are minor handicaps compared to the
>>> benefits it brings
>>>
>>> Marc
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>>
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