[Stoves] A continuous feed rice husk gasifier for parboiling 40 kg of rice?

Serge Horsmans serge.horsmans at gmail.com
Tue Feb 24 02:05:55 CST 2015 

Dear Mr. Anderson and other insiders,

thank you very much.   I will wait for more news.

Kind regards,

Serge

2015-02-24 0:35 GMT+01:00, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>:
> Serge,
>
> Through another channel I am seeking further information about the
> Belonio gasifiers, and will share what is relevant.   I do know that he
> is active about the topic, and he is working with sponsors, which is good.
>
> The "older" designs that you indicated (one was 2011, so not really very
> old) are available.  One was quite large and not appropriate for the
> Benin needs.   The other (the 2-burner) unit is a more appropriate size.
>
> There is a tendency for people to "prefer" continuous feed gasifiers.
> But for many users, including the women in Benin with parboiling, the
> total daily usage is less than 2 hours.   A large-ish TLUD stove that is
> a batch operation can almost do that time already.   And can certainly
> do that length of time if ONE refueling is allowed.
>
> I hope we hear from Dylan soon about the Vietnam situation.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 2/23/2015 12:34 AM, Serge Horsmans wrote:
>> Dear Paul and other insiders,
>>
>> Please find the answers below.
>>
>>   1) The pot size is said to be 25 Liter (actually a little larger so
>> that the 25 L can enter into the pot.   Please confirm that those are
>> cast iron pot.   Are any other types of pots in use?   Would any other
>> pots be considered or even encouraged?
>>
>> It is always the same pot as the paddy holding vat has to fit neatly
>> to keep the steam inside during the steaming of the paddy.
>>
>> 2) In many African countries there is fabrication of stainless steel
>> cooking pots for institutional cooking.  Are any of those being
>> fabricated in Benin?  If the fabrication skills are available, the SS
>> pots could be made in any desired size and shape.
>>
>> Pots are made in Benin but they are made in aluminium.   They always
>> have the same shape, which is the shape as you can see on the pictures
>> of the soaking of paddy.   There are different sizes but you need to
>> choose form the sizes is available.  The size of the pots used today
>> is chosen so that one single woman can do the job on her own.
>>
>> 3) Also, in Benin, is there any tendency that the parboiling
>> operations are becoming larger (such as one location processing two of
>> the 25 Liter batches) or more consolidated for greater volume of
>> production?    Or for using any larger pots?
>>
>> There are women that combine the efforts.  They use a system that can
>> handle 300 kg. paddy at a time.  This is less common. The system will
>> only be used if they can buy such an amount of paddy.   If they buy
>> small quantities, they will use the 'sma ll' cauldron.  If we would
>> like to help the majority of the women parboiling paddy we should
>> focus on the ones doing the 35 – 40 kg of paddy at a time.
>>
>>
>> I would like to add a question.
>> I noticed that Mr. Belonio has designed a continuous-flow rice husk
>> gasifier for
>>   small-scale thermal application.
>>
>> https://www.google.bj/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2Ffiles%2FContinuous-Flow%2520Rice%2520Husk%2520Gasifier%2520for%2520Small-Scale%2520Thermal%2520Applications.pdf&ei=zsbqVLWwGNDkaMWCgogF&usg=AFQjCNF_jISjf-uLwkV124j_gDlcKURL4w&sig2=DlBaKQa7jethFi5spxi53A&bvm=bv.86475890,d.d2s
>>
>> He also designed a two-burner continuous-type rice husk gas stove
>> developed for
>> household/small cottage industry.
>>
>> https://www.google.bj/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Frhgs4.pdf&ei=98bqVKm6A4XPaI6SgYgO&usg=AFQjCNFy3R3yxRPhjI41U4Gte7z2JZ7yAg&sig2=zEyoYHj21kIvbd2OcPsr2Q&bvm=bv.86475890,d.d2s
>>
>>
>>
>> Those devices seem  appropriate to me.  Is somebdy using them and
>> could he/she share his/her experience ?
>> They were designed some time ago and it seems to me that  Mr. Belonio
>> is no longer doing rice husk gasifiers as no new information is added
>> by him.
>> If those could be used, we don't have to change to mush the way they
>> are working today.  This will make it more likely they will wellcome
>> the new technology.
>>
>> Again I'm looking forward to the response.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Serge
>>
>> 2015-02-22 17:04 GMT+01:00, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>:
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> We seem to be making progress.
>>>
>>> Please note that there can be more than one RH gasifier under the pot if
>>> more heat is needed.   But this would be done only if attempts to make
>>> the gasifier larger are not successful.   The 25 liter pots are not so
>>> large as to cause difficulties to get sufficient heat within the
>>> preferred times for heating to 80 C and for the steaming.  The current
>>> Rua units and the JJQuad unit can possibly do the task already (to be
>>> determined by testing).
>>>
>>> If there is an issue of height of the total operation because of the
>>> need to place a gasifier under the pot, the height can be addressed with
>>> a short platform for the workers to stand upon. Alternatively, the
>>> gasifier could be in a sufficiently large depression.
>>>
>>> Also, because we are using forced air (fan assistance), it is possible
>>> to draw (pull) the pyrolytic gases so that they exit from the side of
>>> the gasifier (not yet mixed with air, so they are not burning), and then
>>> direct those gases laterally or even slightly downward so that the fire
>>> is under the pot.  This is actually easier to do in larger TLUDs than in
>>> the small ones that are most known.
>>>
>>> We all need to appreciate that Serge's first step is to make a report
>>> that might name a TLUD-FA-RH (TLUD with fan assistance for rice husk
>>> fuel) as a technology to be considered.   And then there needs to be a
>>> decision to proceed.   So this is not a simple "quick fix" that is being
>>> proposed for immediate testing in the villages in Benin.   There is an
>>> opportunity to conduct testing elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Serge, we need some additional information.   The pot size is said to be
>>> 25 Liter (actually a little larger so that the 25 L can enter into the
>>> pot.   Please confirm that those are cast iron pot.   Are any other
>>> types of pots in use?   Would any other pots be considered or even
>>> encouraged?
>>>
>>> In many African countries there is fabrication of stainless steel
>>> cooking pots for institutional cooking.  Are any of those being
>>> fabricated in Benin?  If the fabrication skills are available, the SS
>>> pots could be made in any desired size and shape.
>>>
>>> Also, in Benin, is there any tendency that the parboiling operations are
>>> becoming larger (such as one location processing two of the 25 Liter
>>> batches) or more consolidated for greater volume of production?    Or
>>> for using any larger pots?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>> On 2/21/2015 2:13 AM, Serge Horsmans wrote:
>>>> Dear Mr. Anderson, Guinto and other insiders,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for your reply.
>>>> This section  relates to Mr. Anderson's message, in the next section I
>>>> have some questions and answers for Mr. Guinto.
>>>>
>>>> I 'm subscribed to the Stoves Listserv. So I will from now on only
>>>> send mail to the Stoves Listserv.
>>>> We are making progress.
>>>>
>>>> 1) We will want to make sure that the parboiler people retain
>>>> ownership of the rice husks.   Husks are now probably being thrown
>>>> away.   But if the husks have some value, ownership can become an
>>>> issue.   At least the amount of husks for the parboiling operations.
>>>> Any surplus husks might be marketed by the miller if and when there
>>>> are other rice-husk gasifier stoves in the area.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware that ownership of rice husk might become an issue if the
>>>> stove becomes a success in Benin but that is hard to predict.  ThoughI
>>>> think at this moment this should not be considered yet because my job
>>>> right now is to examine the possibilities to banish the use of
>>>> firewood in the parboiling process in Benin.  So at this stage the use
>>>> of a rice husk gasifier is just an attractive option.    It seemed to
>>>> me that the stoves are proven technology for preparing meals. Since
>>>> the parboiling of rice has some similarities with the preparation of
>>>> food, I wanted to know more about the stoves.  To me the most
>>>> important differences seem to be the 'scale' of the stove like the
>>>> diameter of the gasifier stove
>>>>    reactor and the size of the unit containing the rice husk. That is
>>>> why I subscribed to the Stoves Listserv to meet the experts.
>>>>
>>>> 2) You showed that supply of metal is available.   Now we need to
>>>> determine if there are appropriate metal working shops or craftsmen.
>>>> It will be best when we have a unit that can be seen and copied in
>>>> Benin.   Please tell me if VECO would take on the initial efforts to
>>>> put together the "package" that includes getting the equipment,
>>>> initial experimentation (so that there is an "expert" in the
>>>> organization), demonstrations, support for initial users, and record
>>>> keeping with feedback to everyone involved.   And is the key person
>>>> you?
>>>>
>>>> At this stage it is not my intention to mobilize the means to to put
>>>> together the "package".  Currently I am making a report about the
>>>> possibilities to banish firewood in the parboiling process in Benin.
>>>> The rice husk gasifiers might be a topic in my report.  We will
>>>> consider the different possibilities to banish firewood in the
>>>> parboiling process and their feasibility in Benin and rice husk
>>>> gasifiers seem to be one possibility amongst others.   Only if the
>>>> rice husk gasifier seems to be the best option and are retained to
>>>> give it a try, we might consider to put together a "package".
>>>>
>>>> 3) We will probably be wanting to have initial units come from Hua
>>>> community in Vietnam.   We await comments from Dylan M. and Olivier K.
>>>>
>>>> I am really looking forward to their comments.
>>>>
>>>> 4) The weather is so cold here in Illinois, USA, that I am not doing
>>>> any experiments of my own right now.
>>>>
>>>> It is very kind of you to consider doing some experiments.
>>>>
>>>> 5) We have not yet had a reply from someone with the calculations that
>>>> were previously discussed.   We will get that done eventually.
>>>>
>>>> 6) You need to give thought to the power supply for the fan that is
>>>> needed in each of the RH gasifiers.   We usually utilize 12 volt DC
>>>> power and fans.   Barely a few watts are needed for the duration of
>>>> the gasification.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me we might start with similar ones if RH are retained as
>>>> a solution to banish firewood in the parboiling process in Benin.
>>>>
>>>> This section relates to Mr. Guinto's message,
>>>>
>>>> My idea to combined the best features of five technological fronts for
>>>> the need of Serge in parboiling:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Stability  and Safety. The video portrays a huge metal pots (25
>>>> liters i suppose) and needs a stable base as the cook work in the rice
>>>> and steam with the hot pot. The In Stove has this feature.
>>>>
>>>> Could you provide more information about the ”In Stove”?  Is it proven
>>>> technology?  Could it be easily extended to be used in th eparboiling
>>>> process as I described earlier?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Ease in Loading/Unloading: The challenge is how to bring the
>>>> volatile gases down close to the ground so the stove and the big pot
>>>> may sit at the comfortable reach of the cook. The height of the stove
>>>> and the pot matters as the cook will be pouring rice, hauling them,
>>>> setting the steamer and so on. Prof Alexis Belonio developed the rice
>>>> husk gasifier stoves with the burners low on the ground.
>>>>
>>>> Tthe 'cook' doesn't have to pour.   The cauldron and the paddy holding
>>>> vat are a closed system to keep the steam inside.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Time of Cooking: Parboiling takes several hours of different
>>>> intensities and duration.Joe James is pushing up ahead with his JJQuad
>>>> Stove and have great improvements in terms of extending the burn time
>>>> of the rice husk load. Going further Engr. Alexis Belonio has a rice
>>>> husk gasifier that can run in a continuous mode.
>>>>
>>>> In Benin, the parboiling process takes about one hour using firewood.
>>>> If it would take hours the gasifier is no longer an interesting option
>>>> because after parboiling we should be able to dry the parboiled paddy
>>>> in the sun as long as possible.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Mitigating Health Risks of the Nano Particles of Silica in Burning
>>>> Rice Husks: Should we be concerned with sillicosis ? (respiratory
>>>> ailment caused by the accumulation of silica in the lungs).
>>>>
>>>> The parboiling is done in open air, but a chimney might solve this
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Reducing the Cost and Extending the Usable Life of the Stove. At
>>>> this moment, i am discovering the methods and techniques on how to
>>>> make gasifiers in terra cotta equivalents. I have now fire bricks of
>>>> different shapes which can be stacked like a Lego piece to form any
>>>> structure. Following the recipe of low thermal mass clay, the  fire
>>>> bricks float in water !! Thanks to Jon and Flip Anderson and Dr. Larry
>>>> for the coaching. And then, when stacked together, they would form
>>>> into a gasifier stove that runs in TLUD mode. Tests are ongoing with
>>>> rice husks, pine needles, saw dust, coco shells, canarium shells. Test
>>>> last night with one kilogram of rice husk with a computer fan set at
>>>> 4.5 volts boiled 5 liters of water in 19 minutes 10 seconds. My thanks
>>>> also goes to Dr. TLUD for the lessons during the Stove Camp 2014 in
>>>> Aprovecho.
>>>>
>>>> If possible, I would like to consider proven technology which might be
>>>> extended to be useful in parboiling by for instance rescaling the
>>>> device and other adaptations.
>>>> 6. Is pottery a tradition in Serge's place in Benin?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.  In Benin here are even traditional stoves made of clay.
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Do you live in the Netherlands?  Next month I will be in Belgium,
>>>> a neighbor of the Netherlands.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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