[Stoves] [Ethos] TLUD presentations at ETHOS 2015 -with your participation

Fri Jan 9 18:30:06 CST 2015

Tom that was really helpful.

"“Optimized TLUD” CO 49mm, NOX 54 ppm. These are low emissions but emission nonetheless. Typical boiler emission would be less than 150 ppm for CO or NOx.‎"

What is the O2 normalised to for those figures?

Is the repetition of CH4 a typo?

Note to formula hounds:

The HHV calculated theoretically assumes that the N in the fuel will be burned to NO2. In a biomass stove that is unachievable so if you wanted to get a max heat value from which to determine various efficiencies you could use (should use) NO as the final product.

Tom thanks for the note Re fuel N and NO. My comment about temperature still stands, yes? My source is a presentation by a prof from U Stuttgart which had a slide on the subject. If it matters to a anyone I could try to track it down.

Based on your observations I will add a note to track the NO (only) in relation to %N in the fuel to see if we find something. To date biomass H2 seems to track CO at a ratio of 1:3 and with coal it is 1:4, generally speaking. ‎That agrees with your NO observations, at a glance anyway.

Very interesting
Crispin

Paul,

A literature search for NOX and TLUD will show that NOx and CO emissions from TLUD’s can be found is studies that you have cited.

C. Birzer, 2013, http://www.ewb.org.au/jhe/index.php/jhe/article/viewFile/11/11

An analysis of combustion from a top-lit up-draft (TLUD) cookstove

Cristian Birzer*, Paul Medwell, Josh Wilkey, Tomas West, Matthew Higgins, Gregory MacFarlane and Matthew Read

 <mailto:*cristian.birzer at adelaide.edu.au> *cristian.birzer at adelaide.edu.au

“Optimized TLUD” CO 49mm, NOX 54 ppm. These are low emissions but emission nonetheless. Typical boiler emission would be less than 150 ppm for CO or NOx.

The GIZ Micro-gasification manual also has some NOX and CO data.

http://seachar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2014-03_Micro-gasification_manual_GIZ_HERA_Roth_med.pdf

CH4 is usually about 3% in producer gas but in the TLUD designs it is oxidized to CH4 so you would use the CH4 equivalent of CO.

NOx increased with fuel nitrogen independently of temperature. NOX precursors are created from nitrogen compounds and become NOX as the gas is burned. In large gasifiers I have tested a linear relationship between fuel bound nitrogen and NOX. I haven’t tested this in TLUDS but I would expect the same result.

Thermal NOX should also occur in a very efficiently designed TLUD burner. TLUD gas may simply too dilute to obtain high temperatures.

Tom

From: ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu [mailto:ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 1:28 PM
To: Stephen Joseph; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Cc: ETHOS - Listserve
Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] TLUD presentations at ETHOS 2015 -with your participation

Stephan,

I know of no such studies.   And I expect to find none, either.   NOx is not associated with TLUDs because the temperatures do not get high enough (that is my understanding, but not my field of expertise).    And the same applies for CH4.       The TLUD devices that are the sizes of 200 L drums are constructed with a final flame as the gases exit.   CH4 should not be able to survive that flame area.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>

On 1/9/2015 1:11 PM, Stephen Joseph wrote:

HI Paul

Does anyone have CH4 and N2O emissions data or know of a thesis/ paper that details the quantity of CH4 and N2O from TLUD drum ovens?

We are doing a life cycle assessment on a project in Laos.

Thanks

Regards

Stephen

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> > wrote:

Stovers,

For over a decade I reported at each ETHOS meeting about advances in TLUD and other micro-gasification stoves of the previous year.   For ETHOS 2015, there will be numerous independent presentations that relate to TLUDs, so I will NOT be summarizing about them.   But I will present the findings of those who cannot make it to the ETHOS meeting, or who only want a short summary of their work.

If you are interested in having YOUR work about TLUD stoves summarized into my presentation, please send me appropriate information i the coming 2 weeks (by 16 January, please).  You can send me:

1.  Basic info on your findings, designs, etc, including important information about stove acceptance if you have that, and I will make a PowerPoint slide or two.

2.  Send me one or two PowerPoint slides (in .ppt or .pptx format, not as .pdf) that present your work.

Be sure to include your contact information on the slides.

*********** Here is the Title and Abstract (at this time).  I might pick up a co-author or two.

ETHOS 2015 presentation

Title:

Advances of TLUD and other Micro-gasification for Clean Cookstoves during 2014

Presenter:    Paul “Dr TLUD” Anderson

                       Juntos Energy Solutions NFP

                                                           Abstract

Numerous advances in TLUD and other micro-gasifiier cookstoves that occurred in 2014 have their own presentations at the ETHOS 2015 conference.  This presentation is an overview of additional work and status reports that otherwise would not be presented.   With one or two slides from several TLUD stove projects, the range of diversity of approaches and underlying issues are seen on a world-wide basis.  The presenter is in contact with potential contributors, organizing their inputs, and presenting the diversity of results.

*******

I am anticipating a wide variety of material to include.    I hope that the Nurhuda / Differ activities in Indonesia are presenting, but if not, I will try to have a short summary of that effort.   Same applies to Crispin with both Mongolia and Indonesia TLUD information.    Less likely to attend are people with TLUD efforts ongoing in India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Uganda, Kenya, South Africa, USA and El Salvador (I have direct contact with all of them), and am sure that 6 to 10 others might respond to this contact requesting them to provide some short summary info.   It will be SPECIFIC to TLUD and related micro-gasification.   I am not trying to cover all types of stoves.

If you want to chat about this, I am at my home phone number below or by Skype or by email.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
Website:  www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>

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