[Stoves] Low-cost stove test equipment project: was Re: PM measurement with Speck
Dean Still
deankstill at gmail.com
Thu Jun 11 15:32:40 CDT 2015
Hi Paul,
The idea of a really low cost CO/PM test apparatus is also very important
to me. "You get what you inspect, not what you expect". (Kirk)
Unfortunately, I only really trust the pump and filter approach now because
I've been mislead lots of times by light scattering data which can
seriously under report especially if the particles are small.
A cheap pump and filter system seems quite possible and Sam has mocked up a
start. We'll have it going at Stove Camp.
I bought the Speck and we can compare results in the Test Kitchen and under
the hood. Fun!
Best,
Dean
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Because the inexpensive monitors are for LOW PM concentrations, that is an
> advantage when we are working on very clean stoves. The other stoves
> (with moderate to high PM output) can be easily recognized by odors,
> visible smoke, watery eyes, and probably other ways. But the quite clean
> stoves should not foul-up these devices.
>
> Imagine a stove testing set-up for "pocket change" costs by having a CO
> detector with digital readout, a PM detector with digital readout, plus
> reasonable scales and thermometers. This would be a great topic for
> someone to study.
>
> This is beyond my abilities of time and talent, but I (and probably
> others, who are requested to identify themselves to the Listserv or to me
> privately) might help sponsor someone to do this work. If interested,
> please discuss on this Listserv and then we can shift to private email
> after the general issues have been identified.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 6/11/2015 11:31 AM, Dean Still wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The three we have give numbers and some have data loggers. As Kirk
> points out, these monitors are intended for room air at low PM
> concentrations but some do have good quality sensors so it is interesting
> to see if they could be helpful as a stove development tool. We use our IAP
> meter in that way in the Test Kitchen with regulated air exchanges and we
> also use a fan to suck room air into a box.
>
> We'll explain and explore at Stove Camp if folks are interested.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dean or Christina or anyone,
>>
>> Are the PM sensors just sounding an alarm (like simple smoke detectors)
>> or are they giving any readouts of actual numbers? Even if not calibrated
>> to exact standards, seeing the numbers can be of great help. There are
>> CO detectors that are alarm only and some that give readouts.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 6/11/2015 10:07 AM, Dean Still wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> We have three PM sensors here at the lab (under $100) from China and
>> are interested in quantifying their performance. The Test Kitchen is set up
>> and we can try some experiments at Stove Camp for those interested.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>> WONDERFUL!!! Now this Listserv is really working together!! So
>>> summary of comments and thoughts thus far:
>>>
>>> 1. MOST of us were almost unaware of the existence of Speck, and we
>>> find out (thanks Christina) that there are many such types of units.
>>>
>>> 2. But being inexpensive, they have issues of quality of the data.
>>> Evidently not of sufficient quality for the HEALTH STUDIES requirements of
>>> Kirk Smith and his crew.
>>>
>>> 3. But for those of us in the "trenches" trying to understand how to
>>> improve the stoves, these small detectors of PM could be of great
>>> assistance. If only to be able to detect whether the emissions are
>>> improving or worsening would be useful for a stove designer to make
>>> comparisons between one stove with two different variations.
>>>
>>> 4. These smaller PM measurement devices have not yet entered into the
>>> activities of Aprovecho (as developer of high precision instruments) and
>>> therefore have not been part of Aprovecho activities for Stove Camps where
>>> the inexpensive instruments might be of great interest.
>>>
>>> 5. Will these PM sensors be part of Stove Camps? Or when? I do not
>>> have any such sensors, and I am not intending to attend the Aprovecho Stove
>>> Camp in July (27 to 31, I believe). Dean and crew or some attendee might
>>> arrange to have the PM sensors by then.
>>>
>>> But there is another Stove Camp early next month (9 - 10 July) in
>>> Ontario, Canada, headed by Crispin PP and Julien Winter and hosting
>>> assistance by Alex English. The focus will be on the RELATIVELY LOW COST
>>> emissions testing equipment (and procedures) that Crispin knows so well.
>>> If you are not familiar with such equipment or want further information and
>>> hands-on experience, consider attending. Information about this Stove
>>> Camp about Testing is available from Julien, who I ask to re-post to the
>>> Stoves Listserv the contact information and details / agenda (with a new
>>> Subject line). So, perhaps further discussion about the inexpensive
>>> PM measurement devices will be included at that event.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>> On 6/10/2015 6:09 PM, Christina Espinosa wrote:
>>>
>>> I asked Kirk Smith if he had used this one before and here is his
>>> response regarding these type of PM devices for the home from tests they
>>> have run:
>>>
>>> "There a number of PM devices on the market now designed for general
>>> consumers -- at least a dozen in China alone. plus some here. We have
>>> evaluated several and are doing another batch here soon at our lab in
>>> Richmond. So far, none has the combination we want of
>>>
>>> -- precise and stable enough readings
>>> --small and light enough for personal monitoring
>>> --ease in zeroing and calibrating
>>> --high enough upper limit -- they typically stop at 1 mg/me or lower
>>> --ease in cleaning -- necessary for our environments or even in dirty
>>> Asian cities
>>> --reasonable battery life
>>> --easy datalogging, downloading, etc
>>>
>>> Our UCB-PATs+ does meet these criteria and is now undergoing field
>>> trials. (We are also flying it on our aerial particle monitor (drone) in
>>> India.) Would not expect it to be commercially available (from BA) until
>>> early next year, however."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Roberto Poehlmann <
>>> roberto.poehlmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> i found this links about specksensor, with experiments results:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://publiclab.org/notes/chrisbartley/04-15-2014/speck-particle-monitor
>>>>
>>>> This is another monitor of PM:
>>>> http://www.dylosproducts.com/ornodcairqum.html
>>>>
>>>> ..and another:
>>>> http://aircasting.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arduino:
>>>>
>>>> In the world of Arduino, you can DIY your own PM device, like this
>>>> (Dustduino):
>>>>
>>>> http://publiclab.org/notes/Schroyer/11-23-2013/measure-coarse-and-fine-air-particulates-with-a-dustduino
>>>>
>>>> It uses the sensor Shinyei PPD-42 Dust Sensor (
>>>> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-dust-sensor-p-1050.html)
>>>>
>>>> This is a experiment to compare this Japan sensor with a similar
>>>> Korean Sensor, http://aqicn.org/sensor/shinyei/
>>>>
>>>> It says that "There are many affordable and low-cost air particule
>>>> sensor. The most famous one is definitely the Japanese Shinyei sensor, with
>>>> a cost of around 75 CNY (12 USD)"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is another DIY monitor with arduino:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-one-PM25-monitor-with-Arduino-UNO/
>>>>
>>>> It uses the sensor SDS011 (link
>>>> http://inovafitness.com/product-35.html).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Finally, i found this document, that describe various sensors and
>>>> describe how it works.
>>>> http://www.teco.edu/~budde/publications/inss2012_budde.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have now two Arduinos, and i will make (some day) my own datalogger
>>>> (temp, PM, CO, oxygen, etc.). The sensors for Arduino's are not to
>>>> expensive, and in Internet exists a lot of examples of this type of devices.
>>>>
>>>> This is, for example, a dalalogger made with Arduino:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-Temp-Logger/
>>>>
>>>> https://blog.adafruit.com/2010/09/07/a-thermocouple-datalogger-based-on-the-arduino-platform/
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Roberto
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christina Espinosa
>>> University of the Pacific '10
>>> School of International Studies
>>> c_espinosa1 at u.pacific.edu
>>>
>>>
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