[Stoves] PM measurement with Speck

[Frank Shields]

Dear Andrew and Crispin, Stovers,



All you say does complicate things. We have:

 

1)  toxic volatiles; gases that to measure requires scrubbers of different types and GC-MS type equipment. So that is out of our range of tests but I think we work around that much like the drinking water industry.  They test for only fecal coliform(FC) and use it as an indicator.  That is if FC is low they consider all the toxic microbes also low.  So if we show the air clean of particles we can consider the combustion process is also destroying the organic gases(?).

2)  Droplets; These are water and/or condensed tars. They hit a surface and water evaporates and the organic fraction is left as a coating to soon be incorporated into tissue or blood stream. 

3)  Inorganic ash; very fine mineral material that may, or not, dissolve in water. Likely harmless chemically but can block airflow.

4)  Soot; organic carbon that can block airflow and migrate into lungs.

 

It seems testing volatile toxins are out.  It seems determining size of particles meaningless if there are droplets or fog.  The problems are both blocking airflow in the lungs and organic materials.  If agreed we need to test the filter blockage (like the modified SDI test I mentioned) and weighing the filtered material and determined percent organic material to percent inorganic ash.  (if using cellulose filter we heat to 550c and measure inorganic ash left and if using glass fiber filters we heat to 550c and determine weight loss as organic).

 

So we have a (1) SDI type measurement and (2) percent organic and (3) inorganic trapped on the filter as Test Results. If the SDI type measurement Passes (agreed upon air volume does not reduce air flow as agreed upon value) the other two values are not necessary. Something like that?

Thanks

Frank


Frank Shields
franke at cruzio.com


> On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:35 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Andrew and Frank
> 
> Please consider that many of the 'particles' are not solid. Because the N American standards concentrated of 'dry dust' measurements taken above 400 degrees, there is a natural tendency to think of particles as little bits of carbon or sand. 
> 
> Condensed particles are like droplets of fog that appear below 400 which is why 400 was chosen to eliminate them!
> 
> When they get to the lung surface they stick like fog condensation on a metal plate. They are no longer particles but chemical deposits. They don't retain their integrity and wander around like bits of sand. They blend in. 
> 
> Most of the PM from a coal of wood fire is condensed particles not dry dust. Exposure to PM and disease estimates and 'what might be' are not obvious because there really are three things in that mix: condensed droplets of liquids/chemicals, black carbonaceous particles and other organic particles. BC and OC.
> 
> Obviously it is simplistic to group everything together. The particles emitted at the end of a burn will probably be very different from those emitted at the beginning. The dose-responses will be different too.
> 
> Lots of work still needed. 
> Regards 
> Crispin
> 
> [Default] On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:55:13 -0700,Frank Shields
> <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> >Thinking the smoke effects the lungs by plastering and clogging the lungs with surface particles.  Could be effected more by tars and flat shaped than weight or size - but likely a combination of all. 
> 
> Frank I'm by no means genned up on this subject but I think it's the
> fact that the sooty particles are so small that they can migrate
> through the mucous membrane walls. Once in the cells their mutagenic
> properties can affect cell division.
> 
> AJH
> 
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