[Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue May 19 10:54:27 CDT 2015


Leslie,

Thank you!   I was incorrect.

Please do pass on to WB and MCC program managers my request for 
assistance to get easier access to the coal-burning stoves information, 
especially about the stove designs and about expansion beyond Mongolia 
of the apparent success there.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 5/19/2015 10:30 AM, Leslie Cordes wrote:
> Paul - it is incorrect that the Alliance does not cover coal fueled 
> cookstoves. In fact, we have a comprehensive clean cookstoves program 
> in China, and Mongolia has been a long-standing national partner of 
> the Alliance. Additionally, a representative of the WB funded program 
> spoke about their program at the last Forum in Cambodia‎ and we have 
> featured articles about the MCC-UNEP-LBL program in Mongolia in the 
> Alliance's newsletters.  I would be happy to pass along your note to 
> the Bank and MCC program managers
>
> Best regards, Leslie
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> *From: *Paul Anderson
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:17 AM
> *To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Reply To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating
>
>
> Crispin and all,
>
> Your message is very useful about several important points:
>
> 1.  Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done in 
> Mongolia.   Congratulations to all who are involved.   Seems the World 
> Bank is the big backer.
>
> 2.  Information flow about these efforts is horrible.   Our ONLY 
> source of info has been Crispin.   THANKS!!!!    Otherwise, this is 
> almost off of the radar for Stoves discussions openly on  the 
> Internet.   I searched for
>> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)
> and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc.   I did not do a 
> thorough search.     Please somebody check fully and confirm or 
> correct me and guide us to the data.   But if I am correct, this lack 
> of knowledge is a MAJOR deficiency in our networking.
>
> Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project, but 
> about emissions and evidently not about stove design / manufacturing) 
> does not have clear photos / tech drawings / and other info about the 
> stoves themselves.
>
> 3.  The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles. FANTASTIC!!!   
> TLUD stoves thrive on getting volatiles released from solid fuel, and 
> THEN do the clean burning a few centimeters away!!!!
>
> 4.  The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for heating-stoves) 
> with cast iron and ceramic (which is great for withstanding the higher 
> temperatures of burning some (maybe much or all) of the final carbon 
> (similar to coking coal once the volatiles are gone) at relatively 
> high temperatures for the "typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for 
> tropical climates.
>
> 5.  The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I believe) 
> include COAL-burning stoves.   This needs to be corrected.   I 
> certainly hope it is resolved well before the November GACC Forum in 
> Ghana.   The success in Mongolia should be well documented and well 
> disseminated.
>
> Note:   Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere, but 
> that CO2 is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those who promote 
> LPG, which is extremely clean burning (but is carbon positive).   
> Allowing for that, the issue of CLEAN fuel is about other emissions 
> (black carbon, methane, Particulate Matter PM, CO etc.).   Therefore, 
> there are NO DIRTY FUELS, but only DIRTY STOVES that cannot burn the 
> fuels well.   Kerosene (parafin) dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or 
> other stove will give a dirty fire.  That is a user error, not a stove 
> error.   Countless examples could be given of inappropriate burning of 
> fuels.   But what is important is that any one type of fuel can be 
> cleanly burned in at least ONE design of stove.
>
> Related:   Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD stoves 
> available for viewing and testing, most certainly the same fuel (high 
> volatile wet lignite) would be needed for any appropriate testing of 
> the stove.   Different types of coal would probably not burn as 
> cleanly in that stove.
>
> 6.  We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit from 
> further information from Mongolia.   I suspect that a Chinese-speaking 
> American engineer-type person could greatly assist with this.   I am 
> wondering how much the Mongolian advancement is already being 
> introduced into northern China. Or is there a "not invented here" 
> barrier to the spread of the progress?
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu    
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com
> On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Actually I am not aware of the links to the stoves – I just don’t 
>> deal with that side the equation. Um…how about looking on line for 
>> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP) and see if they have something 
>> on their website. It is likely to be in Mongolian which is written 
>> with a Russian script so it will be hard to follow.
>>
>> Most of the stove that pass are some form of TLUD gasifier. At the 
>> moment only two people are making pretty good cross draft stoves. One 
>> is a direct reproduction of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I 
>> recall it has negative PM emissions as early as 12 minutes after 
>> ignition.
>>
>> The fuel is wet lignite. I would not describe it as ‘low quality’ 
>> which I found out only means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass. 
>> I would not describe it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50% volatiles! I 
>> think it is the best coal I have ever seen in the world. It is easy 
>> to light and can burn extremely cleanly shortly after ignition if the 
>> combustion environment is right. Obviously several companies have it 
>> right. If the coal was made into pellets it would be even cleaner 
>> burning. They are still burning lump coal ‘as it arrives’. Big pieces 
>> are broken up of course.
>>
>> The promoted stoves run from I think $80 to $270. Most are cast iron 
>> with ceramic interiors. They have to have a two year guarantee.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>> Crispin,
>>
>> Please direct us to info including photos about the Mongolian stove 
>> for heating.   I think you have previously stated that it is burning 
>> low-grade coal, right?   And it is some variation of a gasifier, 
>> correct?   And at what cost per stove?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150519/b077cd98/attachment.html>


More information about the Stoves mailing list