[Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue May 19 10:54:27 CDT 2015
Leslie,
Thank you! I was incorrect.
Please do pass on to WB and MCC program managers my request for
assistance to get easier access to the coal-burning stoves information,
especially about the stove designs and about expansion beyond Mongolia
of the apparent success there.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 5/19/2015 10:30 AM, Leslie Cordes wrote:
> Paul - it is incorrect that the Alliance does not cover coal fueled
> cookstoves. In fact, we have a comprehensive clean cookstoves program
> in China, and Mongolia has been a long-standing national partner of
> the Alliance. Additionally, a representative of the WB funded program
> spoke about their program at the last Forum in Cambodia and we have
> featured articles about the MCC-UNEP-LBL program in Mongolia in the
> Alliance's newsletters. I would be happy to pass along your note to
> the Bank and MCC program managers
>
> Best regards, Leslie
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> *From: *Paul Anderson
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:17 AM
> *To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Reply To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating
>
>
> Crispin and all,
>
> Your message is very useful about several important points:
>
> 1. Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done in
> Mongolia. Congratulations to all who are involved. Seems the World
> Bank is the big backer.
>
> 2. Information flow about these efforts is horrible. Our ONLY
> source of info has been Crispin. THANKS!!!! Otherwise, this is
> almost off of the radar for Stoves discussions openly on the
> Internet. I searched for
>> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)
> and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc. I did not do a
> thorough search. Please somebody check fully and confirm or
> correct me and guide us to the data. But if I am correct, this lack
> of knowledge is a MAJOR deficiency in our networking.
>
> Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project, but
> about emissions and evidently not about stove design / manufacturing)
> does not have clear photos / tech drawings / and other info about the
> stoves themselves.
>
> 3. The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles. FANTASTIC!!!
> TLUD stoves thrive on getting volatiles released from solid fuel, and
> THEN do the clean burning a few centimeters away!!!!
>
> 4. The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for heating-stoves)
> with cast iron and ceramic (which is great for withstanding the higher
> temperatures of burning some (maybe much or all) of the final carbon
> (similar to coking coal once the volatiles are gone) at relatively
> high temperatures for the "typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for
> tropical climates.
>
> 5. The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I believe)
> include COAL-burning stoves. This needs to be corrected. I
> certainly hope it is resolved well before the November GACC Forum in
> Ghana. The success in Mongolia should be well documented and well
> disseminated.
>
> Note: Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere, but
> that CO2 is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those who promote
> LPG, which is extremely clean burning (but is carbon positive).
> Allowing for that, the issue of CLEAN fuel is about other emissions
> (black carbon, methane, Particulate Matter PM, CO etc.). Therefore,
> there are NO DIRTY FUELS, but only DIRTY STOVES that cannot burn the
> fuels well. Kerosene (parafin) dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or
> other stove will give a dirty fire. That is a user error, not a stove
> error. Countless examples could be given of inappropriate burning of
> fuels. But what is important is that any one type of fuel can be
> cleanly burned in at least ONE design of stove.
>
> Related: Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD stoves
> available for viewing and testing, most certainly the same fuel (high
> volatile wet lignite) would be needed for any appropriate testing of
> the stove. Different types of coal would probably not burn as
> cleanly in that stove.
>
> 6. We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit from
> further information from Mongolia. I suspect that a Chinese-speaking
> American engineer-type person could greatly assist with this. I am
> wondering how much the Mongolian advancement is already being
> introduced into northern China. Or is there a "not invented here"
> barrier to the spread of the progress?
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com
> On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Actually I am not aware of the links to the stoves – I just don’t
>> deal with that side the equation. Um…how about looking on line for
>> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP) and see if they have something
>> on their website. It is likely to be in Mongolian which is written
>> with a Russian script so it will be hard to follow.
>>
>> Most of the stove that pass are some form of TLUD gasifier. At the
>> moment only two people are making pretty good cross draft stoves. One
>> is a direct reproduction of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I
>> recall it has negative PM emissions as early as 12 minutes after
>> ignition.
>>
>> The fuel is wet lignite. I would not describe it as ‘low quality’
>> which I found out only means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass.
>> I would not describe it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50% volatiles! I
>> think it is the best coal I have ever seen in the world. It is easy
>> to light and can burn extremely cleanly shortly after ignition if the
>> combustion environment is right. Obviously several companies have it
>> right. If the coal was made into pellets it would be even cleaner
>> burning. They are still burning lump coal ‘as it arrives’. Big pieces
>> are broken up of course.
>>
>> The promoted stoves run from I think $80 to $270. Most are cast iron
>> with ceramic interiors. They have to have a two year guarantee.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>> Crispin,
>>
>> Please direct us to info including photos about the Mongolian stove
>> for heating. I think you have previously stated that it is burning
>> low-grade coal, right? And it is some variation of a gasifier,
>> correct? And at what cost per stove?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
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>
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